Setting up a Poker Room

[smithy69]

Hi Guys,

Me and a friend are looking into the possibility of setting up a poker room near to where we live. The place seems perfect as their is a serious amount of Cash in the local area, and gambling is a every day occurence with alot of spare cash floating around. A Poker room would be seriously profitable we believe, but obviously their are guys on here that have 500 times as much know how, and experience in the market.

Any help would be greatly appreciated -

1)What licenses would we need , and what sort of cost are we looking at. I have read a few articles regarding poker being allowed in Pubs from September 2007. Is this legislation likely to go through.

2)Premises would be no problem(we think), but with regards to set up costs -i.e Tables (prob 4/5), chips, cards, chairs, what would we be looking at. I have estimated 10k!!!!!!  Is this about right.

These are prob are 2 most important questions at the mo.

Any help would be great

Cheers Guys

[AndrewT]

For some idea of what it takes to open up a poker room read Rob's thread about DTD - http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=3985.0

Rob is doing everything properly and above board - if you don't want to get a licence you can either do what Roy Houghton is doing, and open a private member's club with high membership fee (and make no money at all directly from the poker) or go down the Gutshot route (illegal under current legislation - though they have a court case coming up in January which I think they hope to use to highlight how silly the current law regarding poker clubs is).

From reading your post, if you are planning a 4 or 5 table room because it would be 'seriously profitable' I think if you investigate properly you'll discover otherwise.

See also Cincinattis.

[MrMoves]

I think this market is going to saturate very quickly.  Seems like everyone is opening or considering opening a poker club.

I also think you're looking at an investment of millions rather than thousands to do things on any reasonable scale.

[fergus8]

id say start small with very low start up and running costs being first priorities. im not sure what property costs but equipment etc get good cheap stuff. no frills, then see where u are in 6 months

[ACE2M]

Very dependent on who you want your clientele to be?

There are very specific rules on the rake you can charge etc dependent on what you provide. Gaming board consultation is probably a must before you start as they will come and have a look at you when you open (usually at the request of the nearest casino).

[tikay]

To make money? Forget it.

To have a ball? Do it!

[fergus8]

get into bed with an online poker site

[marcro]

To make money? Forget it.

To have a ball? Do it!

Agreed - unless you have deep pockets and do not worry about recovering any investment don't do it.  £10k will not go very far at all.

[TightEnd]

the licensing situation is very murky, I'd see the upshot of the Gutshot case before committing any capital into a crowded market

[mikkyT]

For some idea of what it takes to open up a poker room read Rob's thread about DTD - http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=3985.0

Rob is doing everything properly and above board - if you don't want to get a licence you can either do what Roy Houghton is doing, and open a private member's club with high membership fee (and make no money at all directly from the poker)

What Roy Houghton is doing is also illegal. Under the 1967 Gaming Act, private members clubs are permitted to run games of equal chance without registering under the act (avoiding the local authority gaming folk etc) as long as the main purpose of the private members club is not to be running games of equal chance. They can also only charge a certain amount for covering costs of running the game of equal chance, a very small percentage. If they register under the act as a private members club, they are permitted to charge a little bit more for running the game. Roys club is clearly set up for the purpose of playing poker and as such illegal.

IMPORTANT BIT:
What the Gutshot (and Cincins, Roys club etc) is doing, is actually a grey area with regards to "games of equal chance". Cincins is also a private members club and regardless of having "high membership fees" or not, is also illegal by definintion of the act. However, games of equal chance are covered but poker is not. Why? Well, would you describe poker as a game of equal chance? Granted, some games may be akin to bingo or craps, but in general, poker is a game of skill based upon incomplete information. And therein lies the crux of the Gutshot courtcase which should give the industry a lankmark ruling on the future of other "illegal" clubs. However, it becomes a two edged sword as it means organised crime could (prolly will) make a move into such clubs.

The 2007 act will sort much of this out, I believe...

[byronkincaid]

My first thought was LOL read the DTD thread but if you read Swimming with the Devilfish or Education of a poker player, you read about people making money out of just having a room with a poker table. Are those days really gone now? Is everyone who used to play in places like this playing in casinos or gutshot style places?

Perhaps there is still room in the market for this kind of small scale poker room?

[Royal Flush]

Don't bother and keep poker fun!

[byronkincaid]

For some idea of what it takes to open up a poker room read Rob's thread about DTD - http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=3985.0

Rob is doing everything properly and above board - if you don't want to get a licence you can either do what Roy Houghton is doing, and open a private member's club with high membership fee (and make no money at all directly from the poker)

What Roy Houghton is doing is also illegal. Under the 1967 Gaming Act, private members clubs are permitted to run games of equal chance without registering under the act (avoiding the local authority gaming folk etc) as long as the main purpose of the private members club is not to be running games of equal chance. They can also only charge a certain amount for covering costs of running the game of equal chance, a very small percentage. If they register under the act as a private members club, they are permitted to charge a little bit more for running the game. Roys club is clearly set up for the purpose of playing poker and as such illegal.

What the Gutshot (and Cincins etc) is doing, is a grey area. Cincins is also a private members club and regardless of having "high membership fees" or not, is also illegal by definintion of the act.

IMPORTANT BIT:
However, games of equal chance are covered but poker is not. Why? Well, would you describe poker as a game of equal chance? Granted, some games may be akin to bingo or craps, but in general, poker is a game of skill based upon incomplete information. And therein lies the crux of the Gutshot courtcase which should give the industry a lankmark ruling on the future of other "illegal" clubs. However, it becomes a two edged sword as it means organised crime could (prolly will) make a move into such clubs.

The 2007 act will sort much of this out, I believe...

So Roy's place is illegal but the Gutshot is a grey area?

[bolt pp]

Don't bother and keep poker fun!

Thats what its all about

[smithy69]

The poker club i currently play at cost 10k to set up including all licenses, tables etc.

They are currently charging a rake of 10% upto a maximum of £5 in any hand. So playing 1/2 PL you can win a £500 pot and only pay £5 rake which I think is pretty good. With 2 tables going from 7.30 till 3am they are making a hell of a profit on the rake side. They are paying 2 dealers the minimum wage but obviously tips is boosting their income, and obviously pro dealers give you more hands per hour, as opposed to self dealt. From what I have seen they are making alot of money from the Rake side. Then they are doing both Food and Drink.

I know they are making a decent whack currently, but the place we are looking at would exceed these targets hugely we believe. Alot of Americans based around the area, and the area is well known for being a town of Gamblers.

THANKS FLUSHY FOR YOUR INFORMATIVE POST