playing on a limited bankroll

[AdamM]

in response to Tikays mention of my post in the news section I'd like to share a couple of other observations about playing with a short bankroll.

My first ever trip to a casino was to Nottingham Gala January 2004. I was scared witless. I took 60 to what I thought was a 20 rebuy comp. I thought that would be plenty. As it turned out it was a 30 comp so I only had one spare buyin. At my home game I was the aggressive player but as it was my first casino game I'd intended to sit back and watch a while. in the first two rounds there was about 15 buy-ins. everyone seemed to have huge wads of cash and I felt completely out of my depth. However about 30 mins in I found A,A. got all-in and tripled up. then I could relax a bit and play my game but, given how deep the pockets around me seemed to be I was still playing alot tighter than normal. I won't go into details about the hands I got but the deck wasn't exactly hitting me in the face. I think one AK and a QQ. and a lot of marginal stuff I wasn't playing because of the reasons mentioned above. Any way, long story short. Made the final and managed a three way chip count at 4am. I'd taken the top up so my 60 had grown into 1685. That was a Sunday night. I went back the Thursday and Friday that week and reverted to my normal game. I blew 120 both nights (in 20 comps) and was no where near the final. The following two fridays I went back to playing super tight, and finaled both times. each time with no buy ins or top ups. The flip slide of playing so tight was that I finaled really short stacked and finished 10th both times (although I made a profit both times when most wouldn't). Following Friday I finaled again but forced myself to change gears a bit mid comp and got 7th.
I then had a couple of weeks where I didn't make the final but only dropped 60 in 20 comps then after an enforced break from the Casino trips went back in August and got my 1st outright win. 1610 from 60 (20 comp).
I have friends who are quite decent players but the won't play rebuy tourneys because they think the only way to compete is to go wedged up and splash your money about. What I'm basically saying is that it is possible to beat a very loose aggressive game by playing super tight as long as when the time comes to be aggressive you do it properly.
Tikay and Julian encouraged me to have a pop at a 250 rebuy in Sheffield in September. I finished 14th and did OK but for some moments in the night I was over whelmed by the stakes. It cost me 500 and although felt my game was competitive it basically wiped my bankroll out, making Nottingham 20 rebuys a bigger ammount again.
In my first year I finaled 8 times from 27 visits to Nottingham and showed a far greater %age profit than a lot would given that I keep my buy ins low. If some one said "here's 10k, go play poker" then I'm sure I wouildn't need to play as tight as I do but I've found that advice I've read about patience, Discipline, Card selection, etc has been the most valuable to me as a novice player and as I make the transition to intermediate player I'll hope to keep those assetts to my game.

...Discuss

[tikay]

Nice post Adam, thank you.

It would be useful if "shovel 'em in" Chunky Mick responded - then we can look at the issues from both ends of the spectrum.

But on a % profit, 's earned v 's spent, you have done remarkably well Adam, despite what would seem, on the face of it, to be at a disadvantage in "playing scared". And if you had made that Final in Sheffield......if, if, if......!

[AdamM]

Had I not got caught up with Big Dave Smith AQ vs AK who knows. I learned from that though. I thought he was playing the same as he does in Nottingham 20/30 games and didn't read it right when, in hindsight it was obvious he had me beat (or at best even).

I wouldn't say playing scared is quite right. What I said to a guy Julian brought to Nottingham the other week was first good hand you get you have to be prepared to go all in with. double your 1000 to 2000. do the same again and you're getting close to a playable stack. I always aim to have 5000+ for the freeze. even then you're a long way off a final stack. saying that if you double twice more I wouldn't be unhappy finalling with 20k. so theoretically you could final playing only 4 or 5 hands. in fact I'm pretty sure I've made it with 6 in one game.

[tikay]

Yup, a decent draw in Sheffield & who knows.......

But getting back to "playing scared".....it IS wrong, of course it is, but, as I said in the news piece, there is a catch-22 here somewhere. What's a man to do when he aint got the 's to play "properly"? It's a completely different game under those circumstances, & one which the vast majority of club players are familiar with.

[chunkymick]

You've done very well so far AdamM and your strategy seems to be working in Nottingham, BUT the problem with playing in Nottingham is that it breeds monotony (the same style of game week in week out). Playing on a limited bankroll is tough, but maybe looking further afield may be to your advantage as their are some excellent Poker Festivals coming up soon.
Your game (from what you have said) seems to be in good shape and I believe that if you play a more varied opponent you will become a more successful player which will result in more......

[AdamM]

Agreed, just gotta get the bankroll back up after robbing it for christmas and the plan for 2005 is to try and dip my toes into the festivals a bit.  I know there's more to my game and I'm looking forward to testing it more.

[chunkymick]

AdamM,
I hope to "bump heads" with you on many final tables, although you may not enjoy my style of play, Tikay may give you a brief resume' of my game if you ask him nicely.

Good Luck for 2005

[AdamM]

my card's already been marked towards you at the Sheffield game I mentioned earlier. I'll say hello if we're ever at a table together.
me you and Tikay should get out more. talk about dominating a forum.

[tikay]

Hmm, you are right in a way there Adam, sad but true.

But the truth is, we (blondepoker) are a new enterprise, not 4 weeks old yet, & I am, quite shamelessly, trying to drive traffic to the site, & one way to do this is to try & stimulate discussion on the Forum.

There are stats & info which, as an administator on blonde, I can see but others cannot.

And already we know that, despite only beng live for 7 days, we get more viewers & "clicks" on our Forum than anywhere else on the site. Maybe that's a reflection on the quality of the writing content (tikay promptly shoots himself in the foot...) but it's a fact. And what I can ALSO see from our site statistics is that for every thread on the forum, thousands more simply read that threat passively. But they VISIT the site, & thats key. I also have the facility to see who is logging on at any time, either as a guest or as a user. You would be amazed how many folks log on during the day to have a nosey round.

I went into this blonde adventure with my eyes open. It promised heaps of work, with no guarantee of any return. My two partners have also put plenty in. Rhow works hours & hours on the tech side, & Dave, who is supposed to be "just" the draw card,spends far more time trying to help than he really should; - what is more, his reputation is at stake, and that's some reputation.

So yes, I do post plenty on the Forum, & I do write a fair bit of nonsense in the News & Tournament Report sections. And that's the way it will have to stay for a while, until we either give best & accept it's not worked, or the postman starts delivering wheelbarrows full of pound notes evey day. And theres more chance of me winning a decent comp than that......

But it's great fun, & very fulfilling. And thanks for making the comment which allowed me to get that off my chest! And, finally (phew, you say...) we are very grateful to the Adam's, Chunky Micks, Karabiners et al, for I know THEY are trying to help too.

Thanks guys!

[Phil]

Tikay,

Just some feedback...

Analysis of an Analysis - fantastic. Really good idea and would be great if you could pick up a few discussions that go on in the forums and bring them together in an article like that. Sometimes those sort of threads get a bit disjointed and lost, but that was a great little read after watching the thread develop in the first place.

[tikay]

Thank you Phil, I have gone all embarrassed now!

But yes, if that's what folks like, that's what we shall do.

I do have an awful fear that our (well your...) forum will get hijacked by the idiots that are doing their best to ruin so many Forums. I adore the HMF, it's my first read every day on the net, but it is necessary to "filter out" so much of the stuff that gets posted by anons these days. We all yearn for more input from the Mobsters themselves, but the facts of life are that with their busy schedule, it just aint do-able. Meanwhile tikay's schedule of major events is slightly more accommodating.....

Keep up the feedback, good or bad, it's what we need to get this thing going.

[TightEnd]

back to the original topic (tikay doesn't need any more gratuitous praise....)

I was a semi-successful online player in my spare time for a couple of years, but got a bit bored with it.Wanted to look at people more, work at the pyschology of it all

Started going down to my local, Luton, in mid 04 and playing the small rebuy tournies and then occasional freezes.Bankroll not a huge problem but have a game that doesn't really suit rebuys.I could throw  at it, but would rather not.

At first I played my normal tight game and was delighted to hit four final tables in my first six visits including one in a 250 freezeout. However by playing a bit ABC and respecting/believing most people I only got to the finals relatively short stacked.

After a few months I decided to become more ambitious, introduce some different styles of play, some gear changes, some moves etc with the express aim of hitting a final table big stacked and to win some  

Since then I have hit one final table in the past four months, albeit I did win a satellite to enter the recent Luton 1000. But that was by reverting to "type".

My problem is one of timing and instinct....when are people at it or not etc etc

I have a maths degree so that side of it is worked out. What I want to know is: What can I do to improve the timing of my moves...or will it just take practice and experience...?

I want to venture further and play some festivals etc, but think I will wait til my game is a bit more developed. Then a gain, I probably won't!


By the way over the last nine months I have played alongside many "faces" and it has been such a thrill, even getting elblondie to lay down post flop when I re-raised on a stone cold bluff....a very minor occurrence but chalked on my headboard!!!

   

[spireitedaz]

By the way over the last nine months I have played alongside many "faces" and it has been such a thrill, even getting elblondie to lay down post flop when I re-raised on a stone cold bluff....a very minor occurrence but chalked on my headboard!!!

 

He'd probably raised with less than you reraised with 

I'd embellish the story a bit more when telling your mates, and say he flashed 2 kings.

[luckyblind]

I have had a similar experience to Adam playing on a tight bankroll. I have been playing almost a year now and made $30,000 plus a trip to a WPT event in 2004 and so far in 2005 have about +$2k & a trip to the EPT in France. 2004's money was split evenly between live & online with the two biggest live wins coming against fields with lots of 'name' players in it. Both were rebuys at 150 & 300, I rebought once in the 150 and ended up splitting it with Lucy R & an Irish pro and made 7th in the 300 without having to rebuy or top up.
Ii would reccommend that any new players play in the smaller events surrounding the major festivals as playing with the 'big' boys will improve your all round game and if you do well the confidence it brings is just as valuable.

However even though I made a good profit i am back to a low bankroll because the money was needed for other things in life such as my fledgling business.

[julian]

Hi Adam,
Getting a bankroll big enough to withstand the swings is the tough when you are starting out, especailly if you only play once a week.
Unlike like you i didn't have a family to consider when i started out - i overplayed my bankroll many times & was lucky that it never ran out.
If funds won't allow you to 'take a shot', then i think you are right to play a tight game during the re-buys & although it might take some time, the bankroll will grow.
As it grows your game is bound to open up - i play alot looser now than i did a year or two ago, especially during the re-buy stages, sometimes this might mean 5, 6, 7 or 8 re-buys, but just as often i'll hit that big flop early doors & won't need one at all.
Added up over a year a loose or 'seeing alot of flops' strategy may welll cost you more money in entry fees, but probably not as much as you would think & this is of course more than compensated for by making more finals with more chips.
I'm sure a juicy record deal would ease the transition!
Good luck,
julian