Why is the APAT payout structure so top heavy ?

[Suited_Jock]

can i suggest though instead of just making posts being critical please offer solutions i m sure that the APAt team will listen

1st           30%     + EPT SEAT
2nd           20%    
3rd       14%    
4th         10%    
5th         8%    
6th         6%    
7th         5%    
8th         4%    
9th         3%

Not that hard is it?

Flushy I don't know you well enough to tell if you are being sarcastic but your attitude towards the APAT really stinks. If you don't like it why not constructively critcize or keep quiet? Your "I know better than all of you" approach to responding is boring.

[totalise]

it may be boring, but its true... Flushy knows all

[tikay]

Guys, let's keep this debate nice & cool, eh?

Many would be offended by the arrogance inherent in "Not that hard is it?", (I had 4 PM's from Members who found it "not to their taste") but I want to move on & debate these things like grown-ups.

Thanks.

[boldie]

I quite like the top heavy prize structure. In fact it is one of the reasons why I reckon some people wouldturn up for it.

For 75£ you will never be a gazillionaire..it simply won't happen.  On the other hand it is "only" 75£ so it won't cost you a fortune either.
I would much rather play in a tourney that gives me 5k for first prize + a package AND  cool trophy for my 75£ and bubble out of it then I would play in a 75£ tourney that would justabout give me my 75£ back for finishing 50th. If it was a 10k£ event I would definetly like to see a different pay out structure.

Sure it is more about the honour and having a good time then the money in these events BUT you can't argue with this being a very cool first prize for amateur players without a big bankroll...I mean crickey;....most 75£ players will never get 5k + a seat at the EPT!

I can't wait for the scottish leg of this thing.

[Karabiner]

Thank you for the full and frank reply Tony. I was sure that there would be sound reasoning behind the payout, but could not figure those reasons out alone. I would be interested to see how the APAT members voted if they were to have the choice of several payout structures as we had in a poll on the forum about a year ago. Why not send each member an e-mail  with a few options(including Flushy's which I happen to like) It is quite possible that many APAT members do not understand payout structures as well as the people who discussed them here.

All poker players play to win money, recreational or professional. The object of the game is to win all the money and to suggest that many APAT members were simply "playing for the glory" rather than the cash would be a misconception imo. I for one, although I was low down on the reserve list had not thought of checking the payout structure, and I'm sure that there were many others who also did not check. Not everyone is prepared to speak out. I was just sure that it would be similar to the one which Flushy recommended as I know your feelings on flatter structures. If APAT live tourneys are to be a proving ground for budding players who aspire to play festival main events regularly, why not mirror all aspects of a festival main event including the payout ?

I am delighted at the success of APAT so far and congratulate all of you for your efforts. I will continue to support APAT fully and will take part in the voting process to help evolve the guidelines. I look forward to playing in future APAT events, both live and online.

[Rozza1]

I played in the event, finishing 24th, and i felt that the structure was excellent.The chance to win 4.5k and the entry to the ept was exceptional for a £75 event, especially when many players like me were playing for the thrill and experience of playing live.

The aims of the APAT should be encouraged and only constructive critasisms should be bought up for discussion as  i feel this unessecary sniping is doing a dis-service to the outstanding efforts of tony and his team.

It should be remembered this is a series of events for the amatuer player not players relying on making a consistent profit from their tournament play

[ifm]

I played in the event, finishing 24th, and i felt that the structure was excellent.The chance to win 4.5k and the entry to the ept was exceptional for a £75 event, especially when many players like me were playing for the thrill and experience of playing live.

The aims of the APAT should be encouraged and only constructive critasisms should be bought up for discussion as  i feel this unessecary sniping is doing a dis-service to the outstanding efforts of tony and his team.

It should be remembered this is a series of events for the amatuer player not players relying on making a consistent profit from their tournament play

I have to say that what some people THINK is sniping really isn't, it is people who see things that they think are wrong and are pointing them out.
I know Tikay feels wronged but i really think that he is also looking at this far too personally, nobody is attacking him, there are things that are not quite right YET and thru a process of feedback things should be looked at.
When you enter the public arena with this sort of thing it is a good thing that peeps are interested enough to discuss it no?

[Rozza1]

Fair point, well made. What i think is exciting is that these events are going to get even better with little tweaks here and there from what, on evidence of the first event, is a very sound foundation.

And of course constructive debate can only lead to improvement.

[boldie]

I played in the event, finishing 24th, and i felt that the structure was excellent.The chance to win 4.5k and the entry to the ept was exceptional for a £75 event, especially when many players like me were playing for the thrill and experience of playing live.

The aims of the APAT should be encouraged and only constructive critasisms should be bought up for discussion as  i feel this unessecary sniping is doing a dis-service to the outstanding efforts of tony and his team.

It should be remembered this is a series of events for the amatuer player not players relying on making a consistent profit from their tournament play

I have to say that what some people THINK is sniping really isn't, it is people who see things that they think are wrong and are pointing them out.
I know Tikay feels wronged but i really think that he is also looking at this far too personally, nobody is attacking him, there are things that are not quite right YET and thru a process of feedback things should be looked at.
When you enter the public arena with this sort of thing it is a good thing that peeps are interested enough to discuss it no?

yes I would have to agree with that. The original post was surely not meant as a snipe (I certainly didn't read it as such) but more as a legitimate question...and an interesting one at that as this discussion shows.

[tikay]

I played in the event, finishing 24th, and i felt that the structure was excellent.The chance to win 4.5k and the entry to the ept was exceptional for a £75 event, especially when many players like me were playing for the thrill and experience of playing live.

The aims of the APAT should be encouraged and only constructive critasisms should be bought up for discussion as  i feel this unessecary sniping is doing a dis-service to the outstanding efforts of tony and his team.

It should be remembered this is a series of events for the amatuer player not players relying on making a consistent profit from their tournament play

I have to say that what some people THINK is sniping really isn't, it is people who see things that they think are wrong and are pointing them out.
I know Tikay feels wronged but i really think that he is also looking at this far too personally, nobody is attacking him, there are things that are not quite right YET and thru a process of feedback things should be looked at.
When you enter the public arena with this sort of thing it is a good thing that peeps are interested enough to discuss it no?

Agreed ifm. But, sat where we are, do you really think "Its not that hard is it?", after we've worked our nuts off to get it right, is helpful?

We have answered every question asked of us, & done so politely & in a civil tone. But I am sure you can see why comments such as the one I quoted are, well, let's just say "not helpful".....!

Can we move on now, please, & stick to the issues.

Thanks.

[tikay]

I played in the event, finishing 24th, and i felt that the structure was excellent.The chance to win 4.5k and the entry to the ept was exceptional for a £75 event, especially when many players like me were playing for the thrill and experience of playing live.

The aims of the APAT should be encouraged and only constructive critasisms should be bought up for discussion as  i feel this unessecary sniping is doing a dis-service to the outstanding efforts of tony and his team.

It should be remembered this is a series of events for the amatuer player not players relying on making a consistent profit from their tournament play

I have to say that what some people THINK is sniping really isn't, it is people who see things that they think are wrong and are pointing them out.
I know Tikay feels wronged but i really think that he is also looking at this far too personally, nobody is attacking him, there are things that are not quite right YET and thru a process of feedback things should be looked at.
When you enter the public arena with this sort of thing it is a good thing that peeps are interested enough to discuss it no?

yes I would have to agree with that. The original post was surely not meant as a snipe (I certainly didn't read it as such) but more as a legitimate question...and an interesting one at that as this discussion shows.

Karabiner's opening Post, & subsequent rejoinder, were NOT sniping at all, they were a perfect example of how a debate should be conducted. I did specifically exempt Karabiner from such criticism.

And Jen (djinn) used her guile to make a valid point in a manner that nobody could argue with.

OK, I gotta train to catch. Happy Days!

Stick to the issues now, PLEASE, & keep it civil, & we can solve a lot of problems in short order.

[boldie]

I played in the event, finishing 24th, and i felt that the structure was excellent.The chance to win 4.5k and the entry to the ept was exceptional for a £75 event, especially when many players like me were playing for the thrill and experience of playing live.

The aims of the APAT should be encouraged and only constructive critasisms should be bought up for discussion as  i feel this unessecary sniping is doing a dis-service to the outstanding efforts of tony and his team.

It should be remembered this is a series of events for the amatuer player not players relying on making a consistent profit from their tournament play

I have to say that what some people THINK is sniping really isn't, it is people who see things that they think are wrong and are pointing them out.
I know Tikay feels wronged but i really think that he is also looking at this far too personally, nobody is attacking him, there are things that are not quite right YET and thru a process of feedback things should be looked at.
When you enter the public arena with this sort of thing it is a good thing that peeps are interested enough to discuss it no?

yes I would have to agree with that. The original post was surely not meant as a snipe (I certainly didn't read it as such) but more as a legitimate question...and an interesting one at that as this discussion shows.

Karabiner's opening Post, & subsequent rejoinder, were NOT sniping at all, they were a perfect example of how a debate should be conducted. I did specifically exempt Karabiner from such criticism.

And Jen (djinn) used her guile to make a valid point in a manner that nobody could argue with.

OK, I gotta train to catch. Happy Days!

Stick to the issues now, PLEASE, & keep it civil, & we can solve a lot of problems in short order.

when you come back...will you tell us what train it was?

[dik9]

Just by reading the posts, it looks like "It's not hard is it " comment was aimed at Ironsides "can i suggest though instead of just making posts being critical please offer solutions i m sure that the APAt team will listen", I just thought it was banter between them two, and not aimed at APAt. Especially as he was quoted in the post? Maybe I am just being naive.

[M3boy]

I think people are taking people's posts far far too seriously.

James likes to "wind people up" just as I do - in most part it is friendly banter.

If you read something that you dont like the look of - why PM a mod/TK?? THEY HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO YOU KNOW. That is of course unless it is a serious matter - which this clearly was not.

[Graham C]

I quite like the top heavy prize structure. In fact it is one of the reasons why I reckon some people wouldturn up for it.

For 75£ you will never be a gazillionaire..it simply won't happen.  On the other hand it is "only" 75£ so it won't cost you a fortune either.
I would much rather play in a tourney that gives me 5k for first prize + a package AND  cool trophy for my 75£ and bubble out of it then I would play in a 75£ tourney that would justabout give me my 75£ back for finishing 50th. If it was a 10k£ event I would definetly like to see a different pay out structure.

Sure it is more about the honour and having a good time then the money in these events BUT you can't argue with this being a very cool first prize for amateur players without a big bankroll...I mean crickey;....most 75£ players will never get 5k + a seat at the EPT!

Quite agree.  It gives the winner a bit of spending money at the EPT event too.  it wouldn't be nice to turn up at the event and not be able to afford to play any side games and have to sleep in a tent!