Discuss - Use of Poker Tracker cheating or not ??

[thetank]

The essence of poker is not everyone starting off as equals.

Perhaps it could be everyone competing on an equal platform, but that's rarely really true either.

You travel to a new place, the locals have more knowledge of the fishies, maniacs and rocks than you do.

You walk into a cash game where everyone is drunk. Do you not sit down as you are sober? Perhaps you quickly slam a few tequilas so as that the essence of even competition can be properly observed?

Also, a guy who can afford to reload 300 times and still get chauffeured home is not really on an even keel with the desperado who's playing on fluff.

For sure there's an appearance that all is equal and fair, but if that were true, no-one but the establishment would make a bean.



Personally, I think the essence of poker is more about working (within the rules) to find any edge, and then milking it as best you can.

As use of pokertracker ain't against the rules laid out by most sites T&C's....

[dik9]

Poker books and experience is something that you have gone to the effort of finding out for yourself, and everyone has the option to read and use experience of their knowledge. Making notes are fine and encouraged.

Tracker is like taking a calculator into an arithmatic exam, those who have studied and practised, get higher marks, then some little git sneaks a calculator in and gets higher marks??

[thetank]

Poker books and experience is something that you have gone to the effort of finding out for yourself, and everyone has the option to read and use experience of their knowledge. Making notes are fine and encouraged.

Tracker is like taking a calculator into an arithmatic exam, those who have studied and practised, get higher marks, then some little git sneaks a calculator in and gets higher marks??

Jsut as everyone can go to the effort of finding out about Pokertracker for themselves, and everyone has the option to use and eexperience this.

[Rookie (Rodney)]

The essence of poker is not everyone starting off as equals.

Perhaps it could be everyone competing on an equal platform, but that's rarely really true either.

You travel to a new place, the locals have more knowledge of the fishies, maniacs and rocks than you do.

You walk into a cash game where everyone is drunk. Do you not sit down as you are sober? Perhaps you quickly slam a few tequilas so as that the essence of even competition can be properly observed?

Also, a guy who can afford to reload 300 times and still get chauffeured home is not really on an even keel with the desperado who's playing on fluff.

For sure there's an appearance that all is equal and fair, but if that were true, no-one but the establishment would make a bean.



Personally, I think the essence of poker is more about working (within the rules) to find any edge, and then milking it as best you can.

As use of pokertracker ain't against the rules laid out by most sites T&C's....

[bolt pp]

Tracker is like taking a calculator into an arithmatic exam, those who have studied and practised, get higher marks, then some little git sneaks a calculator in and gets higher marks??

Who is really the "cleverest" in this example?

[Bongo]

What about the person who does both?

[dik9]

I give up LOL

[Wardonkey]

On-line poker and live play cannot be compared

Anyone who plays cash for any meaningful stakes on a site that supports poker tracker or poker office would be a fool not to use it. People will use all the tools available to them to maximise profit, when the prize is money this is to be expected.

Is it not up to the sites to determine what constitutes cheating? The sites are either happy for people to use the software or they are not able or willing to stop it. The result is the same.

You may not like it but software like is not going to go away, if the sites ban it then people will find a way to cheat. The only sensible approach is to allow it.

[thetank]

Tracker is like taking a calculator into an arithmatic exam, those who have studied and practised, get higher marks, then some little git sneaks a calculator in and gets higher marks??

Who is really the "cleverest" in this example?

A very fair point.

I'd use the more appropriate analogy of a mathmatics (rather than arithmetical) exam. One in which you allowed to take a calculator.

Somebody who chooses not to, complaining about the people who do. 

[thetank]

I give up LOL

Awww, stay and play.

I was just getting started.

[dik9]

Some recreational plyers do not know that tracker exists, let alone what info it gives out.

I agree it is fair, as long as everyone knows what it is and everyone has the option to use it, once they know.

To be honest, I did use tracker, and my friend came round one afternoon and watched as i played.

He was dumbfounded and decided never to play online again, even though he now knew about it and could access it.

I no longer play online, my choice as i prefer to play/run live games. And my job is to protect every player, new and experienced from sharking, and to make a game run smooth.

So yes I did use tracker and I still think it's wrong now?? Sorry

[thetank]

You think it is idealogically wrong, this is a perfectly valid opinion. Nothing to be sorry about.

I'd like to know though, at what point on the idealogical spectrum does note taking stop, and the evil pokertracker begin?

If I use a pen to jotty down tally marks when each opponent plays a hand is this wrong?

What if I do the same thing with how often they bet/raise compared with how often they call?

What if I also keep track of how often they've reloaded?

I'll have pretty much the same info I would have if I used pokertracker, but I'd be running out of room on my piece of paper.

In fact, I'm going through entire forests worth of A4 here. Maybe it would be better if I used a computer program?

[bolt pp]

I think theres an inherent diffence between those that would seek out software such as pokertracker and those that play online and remain uninformed.

Its to do with darwin and the theory of evolution

[dik9]

By all means, use the information , you yourself have personally acquired.

Using a computer, is giving you information that IT has acquired.

Might as well throw a bot in there? and cut the middle man out.

[Sheriff Fatman]

By all means, use the information , you yourself have personally acquired.

Using a computer, is giving you information that IT has acquired.

Might as well throw a bot in there? and cut the middle man out.

Now you're muddying the argument a little.  PT does nothing to advise you how to act or to take action on your behalf.  As others have said, its just a very sophisticated form of note-taking using information that the sites put in the public domain.

Datamining of tables where you don't play is a grey area ethically for me, although the solution lies with the sites themselves in acting to prevent this.

The commercial sale of info collected from datamining is where I think the problem lies and is fortunately the issue which the sites are taking most action to clamp down on.  Similarly, anything (a bot, etc) which offers advice or acts on your behalf should clearly be outlawed.  PT doesn't fall into this category (or the HUD's that use its data).

Sheriff