Rules Changes.

[Yogi-Bear]

At the end of the month, Grosvenor Casinos will be having a national card room meeting. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Now is your chance to speak up and tell us what rules you would like changing or how certain rules should be changed.

To start you all off, here are a few rules I know people dont like. But how would you change em. I'm not promising to change them, but will give it my best shot, and I think Dani will be onside with it too.

1. Cards exposed on the flop by dealer error before action is complete.

We currently use 3rd from bottom and replace it. I like the Broadway rules that get them shuffled back in2 the pack.

2. Cards shown by players.

Currently penalised by not being able to bet again. Other places automatically disqualify them. If d'q do they get chips back etc.etc.

3. Moody rule??? Speech play? Should they go or not go?

4. Betting out of turn. Should it stand??? Had a few complaints about that one over last few weeks. Oh well.

5. Passing out of turn consistently. This is a new one and is becoming more commonplace due to the No Smoking rule. People r looking at their cards then leaving the table. This is giving valuable information to people still to act.

How bout they have to automatically call but their cards are removed. Will that solve the problem.

I look forward to reading your responses. Lets try to get these and other rules sorted out.

Yogi

[Yogi-Bear]

Showdown rules???

Should they be shown or not.?

Yogi

[tikay]

Penalitiex should be imposed for transgression of rules, maybe 10 or 15 minutes in sin-bin.

Penalties for "ungentlemanly conduct" would be nice too, but I guess that's asking a bit much these days.

[dik9]

Can I come too? pleeeeeeeze

[TightEnd]

I would like a common rule on whether a dealer can call "time" on a player. See recent incidents at Luton when a Walsall dealer applied the rule that he could. All Luton dealers leave it for another player to ask only

I would infinitely prefer the dealer to stay out of it, and leave it to the player to request the clock if required

[Junior Senior]

Yogi, an excellent and positive move forward! - i suggest blondeites think about this as it really affects US as we are the ones that play these events week in week out.

My Opinions are in bold and large under each one of your questions:


1. Cards exposed on the flop by dealer error before action is complete.

We currently use 3rd from bottom and replace it. I like the Broadway rules that get them shuffled back in2 the pack.


If a card is exposed by dealer error then it should definitely be shuffled back into the pack to allow it to reapper.  It is simply not fair to remove this card from play and why oh why did 3rd card from the bottom be the rule? - definitely shuffle it back into the pack and carry on.


2. Cards shown by players.

Currently penalised by not being able to bet again. Other places automatically disqualify them. If d'q do they get chips back etc.etc.


If a player shows his or her cards in error then they shouldn't be disqualified - this happens at sheffield and in my opinion is a terrible way to resolve a situation (it is open to abuse by players who can motion like they are all in but keep chips back - this in turn can lead to their oppo to turn their cards over and disqualify theirselves.)  If a players cards are exposed accidentally then yes, they should not be allowed to make the betting again, only be allowed to call an opponents bet.


3. Moody rule??? Speech play? Should they go or not go?



Yes!!! - i like speach play and moodys - its all part of the game! - Deception and cunning are vital tools in a poker game - lets have em'!


4. Betting out of turn. Should it stand??? Had a few complaints about that one over last few weeks. Oh well.

Hmmmmm! - if someone announces raise out of turn and then the player before them raises themselves, its a bit unfair if they then HAVE to re-raise.  I think a bet out of turn should just be returned to the player and they then be made to act in turn.  (yes, this could lead to moody's but i like moody's - its all part of the game remember!!)


5. Passing out of turn consistently. This is a new one and is becoming more commonplace due to the No Smoking rule. People r looking at their cards then leaving the table. This is giving valuable information to people still to act.

How bout they have to automatically call but their cards are removed. Will that solve the problem.


If someone passes out of turn then they should be given a warning by the dealer, if they do it again then another warning should be given and the card room supervisor informed.  if they do it a third time then they should be given a ten minute sittting out ban! - simple!   If they get a ban once then they won't do it again!

[AdamM]

STRING BETTING
for a string bet to be called there must be two clearly definable actions, ie two seperate movement of chips or "call and raise" simply dropping a pile of chips infront is not a string bet and gains the bettor NO information.

[freak]

2. Cards shown by players.

Currently penalised by not being able to bet again. Other places automatically disqualify them. If d'q do they get chips back etc.etc.


If a player shows his or her cards in error then they shouldn't be disqualified - this happens at sheffield and in my opinion is a terrible way to resolve a situation (it is open to abuse by players who can motion like they are all in but keep chips back - this in turn can lead to their oppo to turn their cards over and disqualify theirselves.)  If a players cards are exposed accidentally then yes, they should not be allowed to make the betting again, only be allowed to call an opponents bet.


Errrrrrr Junior......this changed in Sheffield in April
Tis now as the TDA rules

[ifm]

what is the rule freak?
they changed it to disqualification at walsall recently and after about 2 weeks changed it back!! caused more trouble than it tried to solve

[Junior Senior]

sorry craig, wasn't aware it had changed - thought yor hand was still dead at sheff if you turned your cards over whils your oppo still had chips? - my apologies! - if it has changed then its for the good!

[The Baron]

STRING BETTING
for a string bet to be called there must be two clearly definable actions, ie two seperate movement of chips or "call and raise" simply dropping a pile of chips infront is not a string bet and gains the bettor NO information.

Totally agreed. The abuse new players get from the anal regulars over this one is terrible. I've even heard the old "those chips touched the table first" chestnut. It's horrendous and can only turn people off the game. I was really surprised by how relaxed this was in Vegas. Common sense ruled. Someone holding their hand over the pot and dropping individual chips one at a time was fine, as long as their arm didn't come back to their stack for more - and rightly so IMO.

[RyG]

Theres this plonker in the self deal game at leeds, a foreign sounding chap, who was banging the table to get people to act because he wanted more time to get more rebuys and really aggressive. Me being the young 20 yo on table took it upon myself to try and teach the bloke manners to which i am told to piss off if i dont like because i talk too much at the table.... when was that ever a crime, gaining information... There were a couple of new players on the table at the time and i just cant see how this sort of aggressive behaviour can encourage them to come and play again.

He was trying to intimidate me, being young and all raising his voice etc, shame this doesnt work with a 6ft, 15stone rugby players eh

[The Dundonian]

String Betting!--- Never known anyone to try and gain an advantage by doing this, stupid rule and does lead to new folk getting stick at the table! Get Rid!

[dan]

personally im not too bothered about the first 2 points
speech play - i like it, i find it amusing as long as it is not personally abusive or imtimadating

betting out of turn - it should stand but like junior said of there is a raise and somebody has announced raise out of turn im not sure if they should be made to reraise, and what if somebody calls out of turn but then somebody raises they should not have to call the raise because they are calling what is already done not what is about to be done but i beleive if someone moves all in out of turn it should stand.(slightly tricky matter)

folding out of turn- what happens when somebody leaves the table to go to the toilet and they miss 4 hands they are always folding 1st because their cards are removed so i dont thinks that matters too much

[dik9]

If somebody calls out of turn then they must call, if the person to their right raises they should have the option to call or fold only, if they fold they should forfeit the original out of turn call.
If somebody raises out of turn, the raise should get passed back to them and the option of folding when action comes to them should be discounted. This makes players a little more wary and less likely to pull a stroke, a penalty has been served on the "out of turner". Does this sound a bit harsh?

And controversially I am not in favour of Verbal but thats just my opinion.