How would u play it?

[Pab]

Raiser is a strong player from what i know.



PokerStars Game #6648724698: Tournament #33277729, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2006/10/15 - 21:35:10 (ET)
Table '33277729 10' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: jesse3636 (4910 in chips)
Seat 2: Premier (11353 in chips)
Seat 3: ezvc (13600 in chips)
Seat 4: hldmplayr (24782 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: The Shrike (19358 in chips)
Seat 6: Cabbagehead (6247 in chips)
Seat 7: SargeAZ (8800 in chips)
Seat 8: Paolo69 (17342 in chips)
Seat 9: Kung (4925 in chips)
jesse3636: posts the ante 25
Premier: posts the ante 25
ezvc: posts the ante 25
hldmplayr: posts the ante 25
The Shrike: posts the ante 25
Cabbagehead: posts the ante 25
SargeAZ: posts the ante 25
Paolo69: posts the ante 25
Kung: posts the ante 25
Paolo69: posts small blind 200
Kung: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Paolo69 [ ]
hldmplayr has returned
jesse3636: folds
Premier: folds
ezvc: raises 800 to 1200
hldmplayr: folds
The Shrike: folds
Cabbagehead: folds
SargeAZ: folds
Paolo69: calls 1000
Kung: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Paolo69: checks
ezvc: bets 3200
Paolo69 said, "TT, nh...... i think"
Paolo69: folds
ezvc collected 3025 from pot
ezvc: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3025 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: jesse3636 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Premier folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: ezvc collected (3025)
Seat 4: hldmplayr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: The Shrike folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Cabbagehead folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: SargeAZ (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Paolo69 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Kung (big blind) folded before Flop

[Jim-D]

I struggle with these, Coz If you put him on AA KK QQ JJ and are just looking to hit a set then its an easy fold other wise you have to go with it on that flop as what else of a flop are you looking to get? none better than that id say?

Would a minimum raise get rid of AK/AQ here?

[kinboshi]

In my opinion (for what it's worth), he's a strong player who showed strength pre-flop and continued to after the flop.  Difficult to know if he has an over-pair or possibly the nuts-flush draw.

Either way, I wouldn't know where I was in the hand, and I'd treat TT as a medium pair here and wait for a better spot.  Which is exactly what I didn't do on Saturday and went out against JJ with my TT from a very similar situation and stage in the tournament.

How did you get on by the way?

[Jim-D]

Would making it 3000 pre flop give you more info? You get re-raised then id say its safe to assume a higher pair then get away from it there thus saving ya self a tough decision on a fairly safe board.

[SupaMonkey]

What's wrong with leading with a pot sized bet on that flop?

[Jim-D]

What's wrong with leading with a pot sized bet on that flop?

Oh yeah, forgot Pab checked the flop.

[boldie]

What's wrong with leading with a pot sized bet on that flop?

I agree, i would have led out on that flop. He raised it from a fairly early position UTG+2 so I would say he doesn't have any part of that flop...unless he has the FD. He might of course have the over pair but there's no need to check that flop when you're holding pocket tens. (just my opinion of course)

[bolt pp]

Gd Fold

[Pab]

What's wrong with leading with a pot sized bet on that flop?

I agree, i would have led out on that flop. He raised it from a fairly early position UTG+2 so I would say he doesn't have any part of that flop...unless he has the FD. He might of course have the over pair but there's no need to check that flop when you're holding pocket tens. (just my opinion of course)

I think UTG +2 means he has a very small range in my opinion. I know he is a strong player, also he doesnt have chips to burn so I dont see him gettin too fancy from this position especially as its the 100rebuy full of quality players, he wouldnt wanna end up playing AT AJ Out of position. If i re-raise pre-flop, i open up the betting again for AK to shove on me, and bigger pairs to shove on me, or as its a good player could easily flat call. 

I almost folded preflop to be honest but thought we were deep enough to play for set value. Now we get to the flop, 4 5 6 with 2 hearts, If i lead at that flop he gonna raise me with almost any hand he has raised with in my opinion. Almost every suited connector hand either flops a str8, 2 pair, or pair and flush draw or pair and str8 draw. Bigger pairs also raise me, so the only hand, in his range, he passes is AK, not AK hearts obv.  Once ive checked i have to give up on the hand as he makes a strong bet and if i re-pop im only gettin action from hands that have me crushed. And from the texture of the flop, that is the majority of his potential holdings.

It was a tough spot, playing a medium pair out of position with deep stacks against good players. Even though it seems weak, i think playing it for set value is still probably the best play out of position. Also I think folding preflop is still a viable option. Just to re-iterate I didint want to re-raise preflop because im never going to get action from hands i dominate

[boldie]

fair point. I'd still be mighty tempted to raise on the flop though. especially because he wouldn't be in this pot with sooted connectors..Surely he wouldn't have raised with them from his position.

Like you said..it's a tough spot...I completely understand the flatcall for set value it's what I like to play aswell at this stage but I probably would have stuck a bet in on the flop. you obviously have to fold after he raises you..so chances are you saved yourself some chips there...it might have cost me my chips.

[booder]

I think UTG +2 means he has a very small range in my opinion. I know he is a strong player, also he doesnt have chips to burn so I dont see him gettin too fancy from this position especially as its the 100rebuy full of quality players, he wouldnt wanna end up playing AT AJ Out of position. If i re-raise pre-flop, i open up the betting again for AK to shove on me, and bigger pairs to shove on me, or as its a good player could easily flat call. 

I almost folded preflop to be honest but thought we were deep enough to play for set value. Now we get to the flop, 4 5 6 with 2 hearts, If i lead at that flop he gonna raise me with almost any hand he has raised with in my opinion. Almost every suited connector hand either flops a str8, 2 pair, or pair and flush draw or pair and str8 draw. Bigger pairs also raise me, so the only hand, in his range, he passes is AK, not AK hearts obv.  Once ive checked i have to give up on the hand as he makes a strong bet and if i re-pop im only gettin action from hands that have me crushed. And from the texture of the flop, that is the majority of his potential holdings.

It was a tough spot, playing a medium pair out of position with deep stacks against good players. Even though it seems weak, i think playing it for set value is still probably the best play out of position. Also I think folding preflop is still a viable option. Just to re-iterate I didint want to re-raise preflop because im never going to get action from hands i dominate

 

great post pab...........please post more of these analyses as crap players like myself learn far more from these than any book.thank you.

[jezza777]

What's wrong with leading with a pot sized bet on that flop?

I agree, i would have led out on that flop. He raised it from a fairly early position UTG+2 so I would say he doesn't have any part of that flop...unless he has the FD. He might of course have the over pair but there's no need to check that flop when you're holding pocket tens. (just my opinion of course)

I think UTG +2 means he has a very small range in my opinion. I know he is a strong player, also he doesnt have chips to burn so I dont see him gettin too fancy from this position especially as its the 100rebuy full of quality players, he wouldnt wanna end up playing AT AJ Out of position. If i re-raise pre-flop, i open up the betting again for AK to shove on me, and bigger pairs to shove on me, or as its a good player could easily flat call. 

I almost folded preflop to be honest but thought we were deep enough to play for set value. Now we get to the flop, 4 5 6 with 2 hearts, If i lead at that flop he gonna raise me with almost any hand he has raised with in my opinion. Almost every suited connector hand either flops a str8, 2 pair, or pair and flush draw or pair and str8 draw. Bigger pairs also raise me, so the only hand, in his range, he passes is AK, not AK hearts obv.  Once ive checked i have to give up on the hand as he makes a strong bet and if i re-pop im only gettin action from hands that have me crushed. And from the texture of the flop, that is the majority of his potential holdings.

It was a tough spot, playing a medium pair out of position with deep stacks against good players. Even though it seems weak, i think playing it for set value is still probably the best play out of position. Also I think folding preflop is still a viable option. Just to re-iterate I didint want to re-raise preflop because im never going to get action from hands i dominate

Awesome analysis

[Pab]

I'd still be mighty tempted to raise on the flop though. especially because he wouldn't be in this pot with sooted connectors..Surely he wouldn't have raised with them from his position.

I cant rule out suited connectors, they would fit the puzzle, a strong player raises with suited conncetors from EP for deception. The hands i know he wont raise are marginal hands, Ax, KQ KJ from this pos. Even AJ is a borderline fold. IF a raise the flop, essentially pricing myself in for the rest of his stack, im crushed by all his holdings he will give me action with. The exception maybe 77

[Sunday8pm]

very confusing overbet...

I hate to lead out on flops, none of the best players do that, unless they are comitting themselves. Any half decent player that leads out at me on any flop after ive raised gets it shoved back in their faces..

I think c/r all in is the move i would make, horrible i know, but i think its just as likely he could have 77 88 99 as AA KK QQ JJ

tied in with the fact he could have AK AQ KQ etc i think you must push. I would say why are you calling pre if your passing but i see your both quite deep so its feasable to call purely to flop a set.

Id also like to know if the flop came down 632 rainbow, would you still pass to that bet?

[boldie]

I'd still be mighty tempted to raise on the flop though. especially because he wouldn't be in this pot with sooted connectors..Surely he wouldn't have raised with them from his position.

I cant rule out suited connectors, they would fit the puzzle, a strong player raises with suited conncetors from EP for deception. The hands i know he wont raise are marginal hands, Ax, KQ KJ from this pos. Even AJ is a borderline fold. IF a raise the flop, essentially pricing myself in for the rest of his stack, im crushed by all his holdings he will give me action with. The exception maybe 77

allright...if the flop had been rainbow would you have called or lead out or still have folded?