poker mentors

[Royal Flush]

I am also like you Claw, I find active learning far easier than from study. I had a poker mentor about 2 years ago, and at the time I saw amazing results. But, and this is a BIG but, try to find someone that has a style similar to yourself or it can seem far too alien, you'll find yourself not listening to most of what they advise.

Take for instance myself and James, he without doubt is a FAR better player than me (no laughing now!) but his style is poles apart from my own. I just can't bring myself to pull off some of the moves he tells me to, and often his teaching style just gets us stroppy with each other (in other words I get huffy if it doesn't work) I am now starting to believe that some people have a natural talent for the game, find reading other players/working out others holdings very quickly as second nature, but someone like myself is always going to struggle with it.

Sometimes it can help to go back to basics again, and stop trying to play 'clever', the saying about not being able to bluff a bad player is certainly true so could you be playing at the wrong level for your game? example: can you remember when I joined the Scottish Dave experiment to rebuild my depleted bankroll? Well, I went back to $5 stt's and sat there banging my head against a brick wall for hours, not understanding why I was not placing in nearly enough of them. James sat me down and we talked all through it, went over what bankroll I had (over far too many sites) and he suggested moving consolidating and moving to the $25 stt's  (I use to play 25 -50) I had JUST enough to cover it so thought it was worth a shot.

The results were instant! I started getting the results that I expected (even better TBH) and I didn't feel like a total failure for the first time in too long.... Hooorah!  My point is, the players I was with just didn't get me, and I certainly didn't understand their play at all, you would think that bad players are easy to clean up against however, that isn't always the case.

I know how frustrating it can be to know you are able, but not get the results. I've seen your game and KNOW that you'll get there, just be patient.


Good Luck!

xx

Ps, just thought of something else, don't take advise from too many different people, this can do more harm than good IMO (it did for me anyway)

Thats all fine, but i am thirsty and multi tabling....hint! lol

[nirvana]

How much does flushy charge for mentoring ?

Put me down for several hours please, I wanna frighten someone's ass at the poker table

 

[Royal Flush]

How much does flushy charge for mentoring ?

Put me down for several hours please, I wanna frighten someone's ass at the poker table

 

Wondering how kev has not found the joke yet......

[Claw75]

thanks for all the advice - and some very helpful PMs

[Djinn]

This is pretty interesting - I have a small list of people whom I would like to sit behind and watch play, but have never thought that having someone looking over my shoulder and 'correcting mistakes' as I played online was such a great idea, for two reasons.

One:  I (personally) loathe having people watch me playing.  Not because I reckon I play differently, but because people who are already of a fairly high skill level are likely to have developed distinctive game styles (the best, of course, involving minimal patterns for opponents to watch for (the old 'hard to read' chestnut) and that cannot be taught, only absorbed through experience).  Unless your mentor is prepared to sit there for several days with their mouth shut watching you, and is then objective enough to recommend ways to improve the style you personally play in, I can't see it being of any use.

Two:  Someone might tell you that they've spotted, say, that the player two to your left is a rock, and when it gets to your button, you should just raise, all the time.  He's probably right; you do it, you're right, but when you're on your own, it's your own ability to track opponents which allows these sorts of decisions to be made.  This is why tools like PokerTracker are so useful - you can train yourself to spot patterns in yourself and others.  It's geeky, but way more effective than the short term remedy of the 'temporary mentor' i.e. seeing that someone is correct in one instance.

[Colchester Kev]

How much does flushy charge for mentoring ?

Put me down for several hours please, I wanna frighten someone's ass at the poker table

 

Wondering how kev has not found the joke yet......

Too easy flushy, just too easy

[thetank]

One:  I (personally) loathe having people watch me playing.  Not because I reckon I play differently, but because people who are already of a fairly high skill level are likely to have developed distinctive game styles (the best, of course, involving minimal patterns for opponents to watch for (the old 'hard to read' chestnut) and that cannot be taught, only absorbed through experience).  Unless your mentor is prepared to sit there for several days with their mouth shut watching you, and is then objective enough to recommend ways to improve the style you personally play in, I can't see it being of any use.

For sure everyone has their own style (or everyone good anyway) and perhaps there is little more they can do but attempt to mold you to play like them, which may not necessary suit but....

I think a bit of mentoring has huge value still.

Someone can teach you not what to do, but what to think about before making a descion. They can say what they'd do, and why they'd do it, you can take little bits and pieces and add it to your own game. The more you don't take, the better. You can question them, debate certain issues, hash out for yourself what the best path to winning all the money in the world is. An experienced player to bounce ideas off would be invaluable.
Also, above all else, it gets you thinking about why you're doing what you're doing. the more you think about that the better.

That last point is true for both parties. I think it not uncommon for a mentor to get just as much out of it as a pupil. Calling all old hands of this world, adopt a noob today. 

[thetank]

I am also like you Claw, I find active learning far easier than from study. I had a poker mentor about 2 years ago, and at the time I saw amazing results. But, and this is a BIG but, try to find someone that has a style similar to yourself or it can seem far too alien, you'll find yourself not listening to most of what they advise.

Take for instance myself and James, he without doubt is a FAR better player than me (no laughing now!) but his style is poles apart from my own. I just can't bring myself to pull off some of the moves he tells me to, and often his teaching style just gets us stroppy with each other (in other words I get huffy if it doesn't work) I am now starting to believe that some people have a natural talent for the game, find reading other players/working out others holdings very quickly as second nature, but someone like myself is always going to struggle with it.

Sometimes it can help to go back to basics again, and stop trying to play 'clever', the saying about not being able to bluff a bad player is certainly true so could you be playing at the wrong level for your game? example: can you remember when I joined the Scottish Dave experiment to rebuild my depleted bankroll? Well, I went back to $5 stt's and sat there banging my head against a brick wall for hours, not understanding why I was not placing in nearly enough of them. James sat me down and we talked all through it, went over what bankroll I had (over far too many sites) and he suggested moving consolidating and moving to the $25 stt's  (I use to play 25 -50) I had JUST enough to cover it so thought it was worth a shot.

The results were instant! I started getting the results that I expected (even better TBH) and I didn't feel like a total failure for the first time in too long.... Hooorah!  My point is, the players I was with just didn't get me, and I certainly didn't understand their play at all, you would think that bad players are easy to clean up against however, that isn't always the case.

I know how frustrating it can be to know you are able, but not get the results. I've seen your game and KNOW that you'll get there, just be patient.


Good Luck!

xx

Ps, just thought of something else, don't take advise from too many different people, this can do more harm than good IMO (it did for me anyway)

  

Apart from the last bit, about taking advice from many different people. I think thats a good thing to do, so long as you take none of it as gospel.

Everyone's different though, not saying you're wrong.

Even bad advice can be helpful sometimes, if you recognize it thus. Your brain works out why it's bad advice, and this helps you think about what the right advice should be. For this reason, I recommend every poker player read at least one John Patrick book, he'll teach you all about how to beat casino games. 

[SupaMonkey]

Claire, what about asking someone to read (or replay using pokertracker etc.) a hand history from an entire tournament (stt say) of yours. Maybe then they could give you advice on changes you could make to your game.

I would do it for you but i imagine you want good advice. 

[ACE2M]

You will find poker books more rewarding as you become a better player. When i first read them i went in to high and it was just nonsense to me.

I read every little bit of poker advice i came across on the internet and you really do have to think about the game on your own when you are doing nothing else. Your subconcious takes on the advice you reason out in your own head and your feel for the game grows emmensley.

Then you can go back and get a lot from the more advanced poker books (i actually get quite excited when i pick up a new one, the mrs reckons i'm a sad geek).

Mentoring is great, i have given a few people a night of sitting with me playing tournaments (it made me play better to) and then seen them go on and start winning online and live. Just get people thinking in the right way is the way forward and if they are serious they will power their own development from there.

Good luck Claire.

[Woodsey]

Mentor or not I think its useful just to have someone to chat about poker and situations. None of my mates play poker and I'm fairly quiet so I don't know many people at that well from the live game to chat about this sort of stuff but at whatever level it would be useful.

[boldie]

You will find poker books more rewarding as you become a better player. When i first read them i went in to high and it was just nonsense to me.

I read every little bit of poker advice i came across on the internet and you really do have to think about the game on your own when you are doing nothing else. Your subconcious takes on the advice you reason out in your own head and your feel for the game grows emmensley.

Then you can go back and get a lot from the more advanced poker books (i actually get quite excited when i pick up a new one, the mrs reckons i'm a sad geek).

Mentoring is great, i have given a few people a night of sitting with me playing tournaments (it made me play better to) and then seen them go on and start winning online and live. Just get people thinking in the right way is the way forward and if they are serious they will power their own development from there.

Good luck Claire.

the last part rang true for me.
I have now spent time with a couple watching me play (believe it or not with me as "the mentor" ) I find that when i have to explain every move (or atleast have to be able to explain every move) I play MUCH better.
A couple of people watch me play online regularly (mainly HU) either in person or we're communicating through MSN..and it is a great help for them and me. Some of them are quite new to poker and HU and I have to use the ABC's whereas others are fairly decent tourney players who just want to get some idea on HU play (very little about it in most normal books) and then i can show more moves. But I ALWAYS have to think about what I do..and it keeps you focused.

I highly recommend it to everyone who is considering doing it.
Of course you shouldn't copy someones style completely...it simply won't work. but everybody at the poker table can teach you something, even players you consider to be "less" then you and it's well worth paying attention to people who are willing to give advise. you just take from it what you need (not necessarily what you agree with...THINK about why someone is doing something...don't just copy/ disregard it.)

Like Tank said ..poker discussions can be a great help. Sit down with someone and justtalk poker for a while..but not the usual bad beat crap or "I won this much last week" bollox,  everyone seems to feel the need to tell. Talk poker like footie fans can talk football.  Why was a certain move wrong or right? Why should someone have played it differently, or why should you raise with sooted connectors and all that stuff.
As soon as poker players find themslves able to talk about poker without it becoming a "well, let me tell you how unlucky I was last week" story, the sooner they will get some benefit from it.

[littlemissC]

claire do you play live?

i find that for me,when im out of a comp i like to talk about hands ive played with other people and ask if they would have played them differently.im quite lucky in that my best friend plays poker and also her husband is a good player to so everyday i get to chat about my game and how i can improve.

[tantrum]

There are few very good mentoring schools online that are worth checking out.

When I started, (not so long a go) I read few books and joined online school, where I took few mentoring courses, being a beginner this was the best thing I ever done.  Those courses were set in the form of assignments, and for a week I had to follow certain actions, which sometimes gave me a heart attack (I was the rockiest rock when I started, I think the only cards I was playing were AA/KK/QQ and AQ was a lose call for me) but in the course of the programme I began to learn a wide range of tools that can be applied to the game, but they are tools, and nothing else.  After a while you can find your way and mould them to your style.  

As with any discipline, you can either do it yourself or ask some people to help you, but I think in whole honesty, if you are thinking of a mentor, try to get someone who is willing to explain why certain moves and actions are taken, and perhaps spend a whole week on trying them out without worrying to much about results per se, but keeping notes why they worked or failed.

For instance if you are struggling with table dynamics and reading your opponents as well as playing the position, playing 'blind' is an excellent excercise.  Do it for a week or so, (there are certain rules that apply) and your ability to asses the table, and how to play certain players should change dramatically.  Whatever the problem you have , a good mentor will be able to give you a set of tasks that you have to do and I am sure will benefit.

his is why tools like PokerTracker are so useful - you can train yourself to spot patterns in yourself and others.  It's geeky, but way more effective than the short term remedy of the 'temporary mentor' i.e. seeing that someone is correct in one instance.

Can't argue with that, only if you don't know how to fix the patterns and have no idea about tools you can use to improve your game, this knowledge is not very useful.  I think poker tracker is an excellent tool for advanced players who can really exploit this programme to its full potential.  

[Claw75]

Claire, what about asking someone to read (or replay using pokertracker etc.) a hand history from an entire tournament (stt say) of yours. Maybe then they could give you advice on changes you could make to your game.

I would do it for you but i imagine you want good advice. 

this is actually exactly what I had in mind.  I thought I might have a go recording some games using whatever software it is that does this (whatever tuff fish uses!).