What would you do squared?

[TightEnd]

Southampton Main Event

You have 35,000 chips in BB with 

Folded round to SB with 28,000 who limps for 800

You check, pot 3200

SB is local player, has been moved to your table three hands ago, No information


Flop   

He bets 3,000

You call

Turn 

giving you up and down straight draw and flush draw

He pushes for his remaining 24,000 or so into a 9,000 or so pot

I have to fold despite the possibility of 15 outs


Comments please on my flop and turn play. I want to keep the pot small on the flop but cannot disguise that I am drawing. Any suggestions (raise? fold?)

He shows me his hand when I muck  . 
 

[SupaMonkey]

I would have made it 7500 on the flop and folded to a push.

[snoopy1239]

Southampton Main Event

You have 35,000 chips in BB with 

Folded round to SB with 28,000 who limps for 800

You check, pot 3200

SB is local player, has been moved to your table three hands ago, No information


Flop   

He bets 3,000

You call

Turn 

giving you up and down straight draw and flush draw

He pushes for his remaining 24,000 or so into a 9,000 or so pot

I have to fold despite the possibility of 15 outs


Comments please on my flop and turn play. I want to keep the pot small on the flop but cannot disguise that I am drawing. Any suggestions (raise? fold?)

He shows me his hand when I muck  . 
 

I would have re-raised on the Flop to around 8k and folded to his subsequent all-in.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Supamonkey/Snoopy - if you guys are so determined to fold to the all-in on the flop then flat-calling is the better line.  I think this is a situation where if you raise on the flop here then you have to be prepared to call a re-raise with the draw and 2 cards to come.  Otherwise you're just wasting chips and, in a SB vs BB situation like this a re-raise from SB can have a much wider meaning to it than in a typical heads up confrontation (after all, there's more brinkmanship involved, usually) so its a reasonable shot to take.

Both a reraise on the flop or a flat call have merits here given the likely range of oppo's hands.  As it happened on this occasion he had AA and his 'panic play' on the turn forced you out of the pot so you can look at it in one of two ways - you missed out on a reasonable gambling spot by not raising on the flop (and subsequently calling his all-in) or you got away as cheaply as possible from a monster hand.

Sheriff

[snoopy1239]

Supamonkey/Snoopy - if you guys are so determined to fold to the all-in on the flop then flat-calling is the better line.  I think this is a situation where if you raise on the flop here then you have to be prepared to call a re-raise with the draw and 2 cards to come.  Otherwise you're just wasting chips and, in a SB vs BB situation like this a re-raise from SB can have a much wider meaning to it than in a typical heads up confrontation (after all, there's more brinkmanship involved, usually) so its a reasonable shot to take.

Both a reraise on the flop or a flat call have merits here given the likely range of oppo's hands.  As it happened on this occasion he had AA and his 'panic play' on the turn forced you out of the pot so you can look at it in one of two ways - you missed out on a reasonable gambling spot by not raising on the flop (and subsequently calling his all-in) or you got away as cheaply as possible from a monster hand.

Sheriff

I understand what you mean, but I don't fancy putting all my chips in with the draw, especially when I could be up against a bigger flush draw. However, I think too many hands can either fold on the flop or be pushed off the Turn for me not to make the raise.

[SupaMonkey]

Sheriff,

If you call the flop what do you do on the turn if he checks?

[Sheriff Fatman]

Sheriff,

If you call the flop what do you do on the turn if he checks?

I check behind.  I'm ahead of nothing yet and I want both chances to hit my draw before I commit more chips.  I might take the pot down with a bet here but, as I said before, SB vs BB tends to be a bit less predictable than a normal heads up confrontation so I'm far less certain that a bet will win me the pot there.

Sheriff

[SupaMonkey]

Ok, i c.

If he checks to you on the end and you have missed, do you bluff? (i know there is the philosophy of i can only win by bluffing, but sometimes it looks so much like a bluff it hardly seems worth it).

[Sheriff Fatman]

Ok, i c.

If he checks to you on the end and you have missed, do you bluff? (i know there is the philosophy of i can only win by bluffing, but sometimes it looks so much like a bluff it hardly seems worth it).

Again, I think I let it go, primarily because a bet which potentially isn't going to be called will use up too big a portion of my stack to risk.  At least then I get a read on the oppo's hand when he shows me a winner.

The alternative might be to make a 'post-oak bluff' where you bet such a small amount that it looks like you're milking the pot.  Maybe 3,000 might work (obviously not in this case as AA will call) but its very much dependent on how I see the opponent and whether I think he's capable of spotting this and folding.  I think in this competition, given 3 hands worth of information, its too risky.

Sheriff

[The_Diamond]

Calling or raising the flop are both fine, I'd probably lean towards raising the flop more often as you're more likely to see a the river that way and only a weak player will check the turn on this board.

[temp0r]

i fold on the flop cause i'm a pussy and don't want to get involved with a possibly bigger flush draw at this stage of a main event when i have a decent enough stack to be comfy.

[JP]

Um i think I fold. Raising to pass is possibly the worst option here. If I raise i'm going all the way with this hand. I would call if I had more chips but don't think this is a great spot to call a pot bet on the flop as you are kind of revealing what you have me thinks. Disciplined fold on turn.

[TightEnd]

Um i think I fold. Raising to pass is possibly the worst option here. If I raise i'm going all the way with this hand. I would call if I had more chips but don't think this is a great spot to call a pot bet on the flop as you are kind of revealing what you have me thinks. Disciplined fold on turn.

the "my hand is obvious" if I call was my concern in the original post. In the end I did this just in case I hit but I wasn't happy with any of my options really

I don't like raising to fold on a blank turn either

[Royal Flush]

I don't like folding.

I call the flop and if he checks to me nearly always bet, unless the turn gave me such a good card i can't pass to the check raise, like it did. In that case i check behind and try to hit.

[The Baron]

I don't like folding.

Why not?