A ruling please

[ifm]

Live game, blinds are 800/1600.
You have 25k and raise in late position to 5k, chap next to you reraises to 10k.
Action back to you (dealer says) and you call the 5k leaving 15k back.
Then a chap in the blind says "i'm allin" for 40k, he is before you and in effect you have acted out of turn thinking he had folded.
Now the question is can you fold or do you have to go allin???

The ruling by the cardroom manager was that you had to go allin as your chips had crossesd the line this was backed up by the other cardroom manager, is this correct?

[Poppet7]

I think you're allowed to take your chips back... I'm probably wrong though

[bhoywonder]

dunno bout taking the bet back,very possibly


but certainly u do not have to call an all in,that would be outrageous

[Jonboy]

dunno bout taking the bet back,very possibly


but certainly u do not have to call an all in,that would be outrageous

  Dealers fault ... but I don't like to give them a hard time 

[Jon MW]

dunno bout taking the bet back,very possibly


but certainly u do not have to call an all in,that would be outrageous

  Dealers fault ... but I don't like to give them a hard time 

I don't think you have to anyway, but when the dealer has misdirected you then that was definately the wrong decision

[MadYank]

Live game, blinds are 800/1600.
You have 25k and raise in late position to 5k, chap next to you reraises to 10k.
Action back to you (dealer says) and you call the 5k leaving 15k back.
Then a chap in the blind says "i'm allin" for 40k, he is before you and in effect you have acted out of turn thinking he had folded.
Now the question is can you fold or do you have to go allin???

The ruling by the cardroom manager was that you had to go allin as your chips had crossesd the line this was backed up by the other cardroom manager, is this correct?

EASY ANSWER if you use the TDA rules.

Action out of turn is NONBINDING especially when the DEALER causes you to act out of turn.

Your initial 5k bet is stuck in the pot No matter what. The call of 5K and the rest of your stack is FULLY opional to ou. IOW you can swallow the 5K, fold and retain your 20k. Whatever cardroom manager made this ruling is way way off the reservation.

[TheJumper]

I agree with him above

[ACE2M]

preposterous. thats just insane. i would have accepted losing the 5k and maybe even the other 5k but having to go all in is clearly not fair in anyones judgement surely.

[tikay]

Unlikely as it may seem, MadYank has it about right.

ifm has SOME responsibility, even though the Dealer motioned him to act, it's still his responsibility to follow the play, so the 5k loss is not unreasonable, but that's all.

But there are no rights & wrongs, as we don't have standardised Rules. That rare commodity - Common sense - counts for a lot in my book, though.

[doubleup]

Live game, blinds are 800/1600.
You have 25k and raise in late position to 5k, chap next to you reraises to 10k.
Action back to you (dealer says) and you call the 5k leaving 15k back.
Then a chap in the blind says "i'm allin" for 40k, he is before you and in effect you have acted out of turn thinking he had folded.
Now the question is can you fold or do you have to go allin???

The ruling by the cardroom manager was that you had to go allin as your chips had crossesd the line this was backed up by the other cardroom manager, is this correct?

Complete nonsense as pointed out by other posters.  I really think that a lot of these bizarre rulings must be down to poor communication or poor listening skills.

[tikay]

Live game, blinds are 800/1600.
You have 25k and raise in late position to 5k, chap next to you reraises to 10k.
Action back to you (dealer says) and you call the 5k leaving 15k back.
Then a chap in the blind says "i'm allin" for 40k, he is before you and in effect you have acted out of turn thinking he had folded.
Now the question is can you fold or do you have to go allin???

The ruling by the cardroom manager was that you had to go allin as your chips had crossesd the line this was backed up by the other cardroom manager, is this correct?

Complete nonsense as pointed out by other posters.  I really think that a lot of these bizarre rulings must be down to poor communication or poor listening skills.

That's part of the reason. Add...

TD's lack the necessary Authority.

We don't have Standard Rules.

Everyone at the Table joins in the debate & it becomes a "who shouts loudest" contest.

It would be SO easy to clean up Poker & make it a better game for all. Gonna be a struggle to achieve though.

[Karabiner]

Do all of the chips have to be over the line like football, if so might there be a need for replays ?  >:?

Seriously though, being punished for a dealer's mistake is just ridiculous imo.

[ifm]

This was at Walsall Grosvenor last night, the TD i had not seen before but he was backed up by a certain blondeite.........
I asked for a ruling i said "can i fold here?" and was told that once they were over the line that was it.
I had AJ so obviously (to me anyway) i was not going to persue the hand with a reraise and a reraise, even i know i'm in trouble (10 10, KK).
As soon as he had made the ruling the dealer started dealing the flop, turn and river, i told her to hang on but she wouldn't, after the hand the other cardroom manager came over and asked what the problem was, he was told and he just nodded his agreement to the first guy.

[The_Diamond]

Bad ruling fromt he TD. Any action out of turn is binding unless an intervening action changes it. In this case you should be allowed to take all of your chips back except for your initial raise, unless of course there is a house rule in place that explicitly states otherwise.

[snoopy1239]

Is that THE The_Diamond of Ireland fame?