I want to get away from my hand....

[Newmanseye]

Full Tilt Poker Game #1263629059: Table Carl - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:26:20 ET - 2006/11/17
Seat 1: imyrhklberry ($39.60)
Seat 2: DJSTPATRICK ($19.55)
Seat 3: littlefalcon ($26.45)
Seat 4: newmanseye ($22.10)
Seat 5: younggunkaze ($18.55)
Seat 6: mc619pgh ($21.50)
Seat 7: trubl4m ($12.30)
Seat 8: GUMBY22 ($10)
Seat 9: johngolf1 ($10)
imyrhklberry posts the small blind of $0.10
DJSTPATRICK posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to newmanseye [ ]
littlefalcon folds
newmanseye raises to $0.75
younggunkaze folds
mc619pgh calls $0.75
trubl4m folds
imyrhklberry folds
DJSTPATRICK folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
newmanseye bets $1.85
mc619pgh calls $1.85
*** TURN *** [ ] []
newmanseye bets $5.55
mc619pgh raises to $18.90, and is all in


Right here I think I'm beat, yet i'm not sure, i just plonked my arse on the seat so no info an any of the players, Can I really fold here?

[Boba Fett]

Your pre flop raise is shocking! for $0.75they could be playing any connector, 1-2 gappers with potential.  Your KK is going to be vulnerable on the flop anyway.  If you think you're beat you could think of a Dale pass and give it up but you've put almost a 3rd of your stack in but if you are up against J9 you're drawing dead already.

Personally Id have liked to stick it in on the flop.

[totalise]

you would open jam $21.35 into a pot of $1.85?

[Jon MW]

Your pre flop raise is shocking! for $0.75they could be playing any connector, 1-2 gappers with potential.  Your KK is going to be vulnerable on the flop anyway.  If you think you're beat you could think of a Dale pass and give it up but you've put almost a 3rd of your stack in but if you are up against J9 you're drawing dead already.

Personally Id have liked to stick it in on the flop.

?!?! Nearly 90 x BB - bit excessive don't you think?

[Jon MW]

As for the question - the 'no info' is the real problem here isn't it?

If he's any good I'd put him on the J9, so a fold

but if he was a bit more mediocre I could well believe top pair or over pair - so worth a call.

In the absence of any information I'd fold, but my cash game is a bit suspect, so that might not be the 'right' thing.

[kinboshi]

With no information in a cash game, that's an easy fold for me.

[Newmanseye]

As for the question - the 'no info' is the real problem here isn't it?

If he's any good I'd put him on the J9, so a fold

but if he was a bit more mediocre I could well believe top pair or over pair - so worth a call.

In the absence of any information I'd fold, but my cash game is a bit suspect, so that might not be the 'right' thing.

Now you make an interesting point, folding the KK on a 10 high board because i dont have any info.  I was inclined to call because I had no info and it was a 10 high board. ( i did call BTW, and I should have folded)

Should this be a standard play i should integrate to my game?

[totalise]

Should this be a standard play i should integrate to my game?

no

getting into the habit of folding overpairs at this level is gonna cost you a hell of a lot of missed profit.

[tantrum]

Now you make an interesting point, folding the KK on a 10 high board because i dont have any info.  I was inclined to call because I had no info and it was a 10 high board. ( i did call BTW, and I should have folded)

well, the board by turn is pretty coordinated and there are various hands that have you beaten.

10 4 2 8 is a different from 5 8 10 7

reading textures of board is an important factor in playing your game.

[Newmanseye]

imyrhklberry posts the small blind of $0.10
DJSTPATRICK posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to newmanseye [ ]

newmanseye raises to $0.75
mc619pgh calls $0.75


*** FLOP *** [ ]
newmanseye bets $1.85
mc619pgh calls $1.85
*** TURN *** [ ] []
newmanseye bets $5.55
mc619pgh raises to $18.90, and is all in
newmanseye calls $13.35
mc619pgh shows [ ]
newmanseye shows [ ]
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
mc619pgh shows three of a kind, Fives
newmanseye shows a pair of Kings
mc619pgh wins the pot ($41.20) with three of a kind, Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $43.35 | Rake $2.15
Board: [ ]

Seat 4: newmanseye showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Kings

Seat 6: mc619pgh showed [ ] and won ($41.20) with three of a kind, Fives


He flopped his set and had me beat on the flop, however I was sure i was beat when he pushed,  Then i managed to convince myself he had something like J10 or A10.

The turn reraise push seems to be a particular move i see with a set on a dangerous board, id this a common occurrance for anyone else?

[tantrum]

yes pretty common in lower stakes,
i am suprised he did not re-raise you on the flop though, they usually do

[Jon MW]

Should this be a standard play i should integrate to my game?

no

getting into the habit of folding overpairs at this level is gonna cost you a hell of a lot of missed profit.

  I did say my cash game was suspect - but - this is just for when you first sit down when you don't know what the other players are capable of. I would have thought that it's unlikely that you're going to be in the same situation again for a good few hands, more than enough time to make a more informed judgement by that time.

Is it definitely wrong to fold what could be the winning hand, primarily because you lack info on your opponent? This is a genuine query because my cash game does need much improvement.

[Raindogs]

He flopped his set and had me beat on the flop, however I was sure i was beat when he pushed,  Then i managed to convince myself he had something like J10 or A10.

The turn reraise push seems to be a particular move i see with a set on a dangerous board, id this a common occurrance for anyone else?

I used to see this all the time on the $0.50/$1 games on Pacific.  Any time I was facing a large raise or push on the turn or river I was almost always beaten when holding a TPTK hand.  I found that large bets/raises usually meant big hands not bluffs.  At the end of the day you have a pair and unless you have a read on your opponent that tells you he is bluffing or a maniac you should fold.   

I ended up quitting NL cash games because I was not able to fold these sort of hands.

[vegaslover]

Should this be a standard play i should integrate to my game?

no

getting into the habit of folding overpairs at this level is gonna cost you a hell of a lot of missed profit.

  I did say my cash game was suspect - but - this is just for when you first sit down when you don't know what the other players are capable of. I would have thought that it's unlikely that you're going to be in the same situation again for a good few hands, more than enough time to make a more informed judgement by that time.

Is it definitely wrong to fold what could be the winning hand, primarily because you lack info on your opponent? This is a genuine query because my cash game does need much improvement.

No it's not wrong to fold, and often right as most low limit players will bet big. I agree with earlier post that preflop raise was not big enough, which attracts these raggy calls.
Top pair alone is rarely enough in cash games, especially at these limits.

[Boba Fett]

you would open jam $21.35 into a pot of $1.85?

Well........no,not after raising it to $0.75 pre flop and getting 1 caller but Id def have raised more pre flop and played it a lot stronger.  When he pushes the turn you're only beating TPTK and a total bluff, if you dont have info on your opponent its safer to fold.