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Author Topic: Midland Masters  (Read 9222 times)
RED-DOG
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2006, 05:07:47 PM »

So what was the outcome with these drunken & abusive types did the
management take the correct action, or where they allowed to continue.

I did see a manager have a word with one of them once, it had no effect and no penalties were imposed.
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2006, 05:46:30 PM »

The one on Paul's table was allowed to continue , i believe he had warnings and not allowed anymore alcohol .
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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2006, 08:28:31 PM »

And I thought my table was bad...
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M3boy
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« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2006, 08:46:56 PM »

Controversial subject - just right for my return!!

Firstly, the missing levels DID make a huge difference at the business end of the tourney, but as it was advertised well in advance, it didnt cause me any problems.

I played the 300 with the mindset to gather chips and to try and stay ahead of 30xBB - which I managed to do for most part, but when down to 13, the av stack was approx 10xBB and I moved in (for the 3rd consecutive time) on the button with QJ suited and the BB called with KJ.

As for the abusive player, he was not dealt with correctly in my opinion. The story of events went like this :

I got moved to a new table with a very healthy 37k (over 30xBB) and on this new table was a very drunk scouser (no offence to scousers meant).
Within 2 hands of seeing his drunken antics, I went and warned Danny that it was going to turn nasty, you could just see it.
He was killing the table (he had a massive 70k) and was making 4000 raises preflop and moving in on any raise. Making it VERY hard to play poker. I decided that I wasnt going to undo all of my good work on a 60 40 shot, so sat out of most hands. I did call once with AK but missed the flop and he moved all in. Twice after that I passed AK.
He continued to be VERY loud and got even more abusive calling every one a divvy c**t and telling everyone they were total s**t and he was a god of poker.
I must admit I was encouraging him slightly, by when he was making MASSIVE overbets and taking pots that it was a "good play" - this was obviously to trap him into giving me his chips.
He had 2 verbal warnings - in my mind he should of been ejected from the Casino at the first mention of the word c**t in an abusive manner to a player, but I counted at least 4 times this happened.
On one occasion, he did not notice someone had made a "normal" raise infront of him to 3500 and he proceeded to say "raise" 3500 . I politely pointed out to him that he now had to put 7000 into the pot as someone had raised infront of him. This he did not like and said he didnt want to play and it was unfair. I said he was more than welcome to ask for a ruling, but he reluctantly put in 7000 chips, calling me a c**t again as he did so.
Well when I looked down at my cards I found KK, and announced all in. The origional raiser also went all in and the scouser passed, again calling me a cheating c**t!
I won the pot and politely told him that those were the rules, and that I NEVER look at my cards until it is my turn to act. Again I let it go.
About 4 hands later he again makes it 3500 preflop and someone else moves all in (Greek Jack) . The scouser calls with KQ and Greek Jack had Q9 and spiked a 9. The scouser went mad calling him a divvy, and that he was now out to get that c**t. Greek Jack called Danny over and again he was given a warning (his final warning aparantly).
Well 4 hands later, someone else raised before him and he asked if the bloke had him covered. I replied politely "I think so" to which he replied "no he doesn't you divvy c**t"
After that hand was over, I was fuming and the whole card room heard me (so the cradroom managers must of heard it aswell) tell him (not very politely) that he was a total w***red star and that was the VERY last time he would call me a c**t.
He proceded to donk of his remaining 40k pretty quickly and departed.

So there you have it.
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M3boy
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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2006, 09:21:13 PM »

An additional thought, I can see why (if) management were reluctant to remove said chap from the card room - he was not alone (about 5 of them I think) and although the other 5 were fine, I could see it all turning VERY nasty.

Cardroom manager - yet another job I would not like
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2006, 09:22:48 PM »

I think I've played him........
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M3boy
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« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2006, 09:27:11 PM »

One final word on the structure, it was not ideal (in my opinion) but I think it owuld of been fine had everyone agreed to giving 19th and 20th also £300 - 2 people objected

20 people came back for day 2, but without that saver deal, it slowed the game up immencely- taking almost 3 levels to see 2 people depart. And with 19 left it was hand for hand which in reality meant approx 15-20 minute levels for the amount of cards we saw.

With 13 left it was a total crapshoot, and I doubt if this will be played to a finish - I would guess on probably 5/6 making a deal - which I wouldnt blame them for doing

But the people who objected were quite within their right to object, I just dont think they fully understood the consequences.
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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2006, 09:53:56 PM »


So if there are enough people who want the longer clocks and slower structures then why do you not all get together and agree to stop playing the events?



With respect mat, do you really think there is the remotest chance of that ever happening?



Well if the players dont (and its their money that everyone is playing for) then why should the casino - they get their cut regardless.

Its the players who pay the money to play, they should be the ones who get together to get their voices heard.

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matt674
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2006, 10:10:10 PM »

p.s. i'm not posting things like this to drum up support for some kind of association - but everyone keeps complaining about "bad structures" but then doesnt do anything about it and still turns up to play the next festival.

Whilst you can use forums to get your point across - its not going to change anything with the bigwigs of the casinos. Actions speak louder than words.

I'll draw up a few picket signs for the next event thumbs up
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MrMoves
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2006, 10:24:24 PM »

Same thing happened to me in Blackpool last year M3Boy.  A scouser was also the one delivering the abuse there.  I wonder if it is the same person?

It doesn't bother me but I can see how it may offend others.

He should've been ejected after his first warning IMO.  Casinos have security to remove the lowest common denominators.

As for the other gripes.  Feet vote with.  I'm glad I gave it a miss now.

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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2006, 11:16:30 PM »

If you think less aggressive structures aren't popular, look at this thread
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=17132.0

The original structure had those levels missing it was the manager that added them to "put bums on seats", had it been a sell out week after week i doubt that would happen.

So a reverse of Matts point works here, in trying to fill the room the structure is open to change.
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2006, 12:29:44 AM »

A member of my brethren letting the side down (no wonder we scouse
boys get a bad name lol) but it begs belief why cardroom personal do not
evict these culprits after the first sign of abusive behaviour.

 It is most understandable that having to face the prospect of handing a
nasty customer or perhaps several of his mates is not worth the paycheck
at the end of the week, but with a professional manner and sensable
security staff i don't see the another option.

This type of thing went on in liverpool a few years back and it ruined the
game numbers dropped off and the value dissapeared, the management
where weak and the offenders where also mug punters on the tables so
that was another reason in there eyes not to take action.

Thing is these tourneys where £5-£10 events and although this type of
behaviour shouldn't have a price on it when people are paying a weeks pay
or more to some of us, surely the least we can expect for our money is
protection from foul mouthed disruptive players.

All the management have to do is bar them then they ain't comming back
to re offend otherwise they will never cure this problem, with respect you
can give warnings till your blue in the face but in my experience it is like
water on a ducks back to these people.

 Ok rant over

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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2006, 05:08:38 AM »

the gentleman in question was drunk before the comp started. He had the highest pictched liverpudlian voice, like a Brookside actor on helium.

The funniest thing for me, thankfully not on his table, was that he was ranting and raving, rubbing down etc when Lucy Rokach was seated two to his left. Her look was well on the way to melting a polar ice cap or ten.

I agree too, the cardroom managers fudged their obligations towards the rest of the players with this idiot.

I also agree with RED about structures. I think, having had a stab at four of these during the week, that the problem is this:

there is play from levels 25/50 to 200/400 and often on final tables when stacks are 100,000 plus

However the problem comes in the middle game where the missing levels provide for little play and having to gamble prematurely to get in position for the final few tables.

One extra level would make all the difference

Interestingly fields of 170 plus, 8.30pm start were typically down to 50 by midnight as the jump to 200-400 took its toll on all the shorter stacks earlier than it might do in a mopre sympathetic structure.
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2006, 05:43:38 AM »

getting down to 50 by midnight is in the casinos intrest that 120 players they have for there house games

remember poker is a loss leader for casinos they use it to draw people in to play the magic wheel
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2006, 06:36:10 AM »

If you think less aggressive structures aren't popular, look at this thread
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=17132.0

The original structure had those levels missing it was the manager that added them to "put bums on seats", had it been a sell out week after week i doubt that would happen.


Ian this comp was originally 12000pts but he had no 25 chips, as soon as they came in he reduced the points to 8000 and added the levels, and it still doesnt sell out, it seats 120 but only got 69 runners. The comp that was changed was the £300 FO maybe after this pm
Quote from: dik9
Hi Rob nice meeting you the other day, nice cardroom!!

Can i give you some advice that you can take or leave, but it may increase numbers for your £300 game.

For 8000 pts on a 45 min clock, people wont travel with those blinds.  The usual format for a 2 day event is 8000-10000 pts on a 60 min clock, with added blinds of 25/50 75/150 and 150/300. If you have the staff for 2 days then i would urge you to make a mark for your cardroom as to expose it to not just locals but to event players. I understand that you haven't got 25 chips, but for what people are expecting for a 2 day event i would double the starting stack if you cant add the levels. You have a lovely cardroom and it should be recognized nationally and people will spread the word if it is to their liking................


To his credit the format has been roughly adopted for the £20 FO but on a 30 min clock.


The abuse should deffo not be tolerated, and the fact that there was 5 of them shouldn't be a problem, thats what security is for.

Tom I am surprised you went and played as in another link you stated that due to the structure you would be giving it a miss, so you did in fact already know the structure.
30 minute clock on a two day event? Ridiculous! (imho of course) I won't be playing

As a side issue I cannot understand why the levels are missing!!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 06:58:07 AM by dik9 » Logged

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