Seinfeld actor racist outburst

[AdamM]

watch it you  I've been back 2 minutes.

[thetank]

I was initially wondering if he was doing a piece about the nature of the word that was being misinterpreted.

Nope, he's just a bare faced racist.



The apology is half-assed. I hope Letterman follows it up with some tough, to the bone, questions. Would like to see the full interview.

[thetank]

Guess whether or not this guy owns a handgun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBTgkshiXkE&NR

WARNING - POTTY MOUTHED AT POINTS

[Rooky9]

Is somebody automatically a racist if they say something of a racist nature? Sometimes people say things that they know will hurt. I have had arguements with people and said things that I don't mean, but i have said them to make them hurt. the comments I'm talking about arent racist but if it was a gender comment would that automatically make me sexist?

He was bang out of order and he knows it, I don't think other people who aren't involved have the right to jump on the band waggon and start writing people off like that...

[thetank]

Is somebody automatically a racist if they say something of a racist nature? Sometimes people say things that they know will hurt. I have had arguements with people and said things that I don't mean, but i have said them to make them hurt. the comments I'm talking about arent racist but if it was a gender comment would that automatically make me sexist?

While there's no doubt that this is a good point, if the white hood fits............

[Rooky9]

Is somebody automatically a racist if they say something of a racist nature? Sometimes people say things that they know will hurt. I have had arguements with people and said things that I don't mean, but i have said them to make them hurt. the comments I'm talking about arent racist but if it was a gender comment would that automatically make me sexist?

While there's no doubt that this is a good point, if the white hood fits............

Is that reference to me?

[thetank]

No no no, this Kramer chap.

His feelings came through for me, it wasn't an accidental racial slur, it was a two minute tirade.

Followed by a half assed apology that looks like he was in pain for being forced to pander.



Half the fun of being alive is judging people in the public eye based on incomplete information. Don't take that away from us Rooky

Particulary us poker players, we have to make best guesses based on the little evidence we got all the time. Projecting that into the world is a natural thing to do.

[snoopy1239]

Racism is still highly prevalent in the modern world, it's just that people have learnt to suppress their views due to the expectations of society. If this guy is serious about changing his ways and seeking help for his subterranean racist attitude, then hopefully others will follow suit and alter their own racist views.

IMO, society has just encouraged racists to hide their racist thoughts rather than change them, and this is why they sometimes slip out. Remember Ron Atkinson, anyone? It's about teaching people why racism is wrong, not simply that it is wrong.

The important question here is one that I doubt we'll ever know the answer to for sure. Is he apologising because he got caught, or is it because he knows he was wrong and wants to change? I hope it's the latter.

[snoopy1239]

Is somebody automatically a racist if they say something of a racist nature? Sometimes people say things that they know will hurt.

I understand what you are saying, but isn't that a form of racism, using someone's race as a weapon in attacking them, whether it be verbally, physically, or whatever?

[Rooky9]

Is somebody automatically a racist if they say something of a racist nature? Sometimes people say things that they know will hurt.

I understand what you are saying, but isn't that a form of racism, using someone's race as a weapon in attacking them, whether it be verbally, physically, or whatever?

Thats what I'm asking. Is being a racist saying something, or believing something? There is a world of difference.

Racism is still highly prevalent in the modern world, it's just that people have learnt to suppress their views due to the expectations of society. If this guy is serious about changing his ways and seeking help for his subterranean racist attitude, then hopefully others will follow suit and alter their own racist views.

IMO, society has just encouraged racists to hide their racist thoughts rather than change them, and this is why they sometimes slip out. Remember Ron Atkinson, anyone? It's about teaching people why racism is wrong, not simply that it is wrong.

The important question here is one that I doubt we'll ever know the answer to for sure. Is he apologising because he got caught, or is it because he knows he was wrong and wants to change? I hope it's the latter.

Some very good points.

[AdamM]

both

and racism is perpetuated by anyone using racial stereotypes. groups being assigned traits (better Dances/accountants/fighters/lover/drinkers/etc) is adding to the problem. personally I get more frustrated by racial stereotyping than by any other for of racism. some people just like a fight and pick a fight with a different colour/religion/football strip or town. they're just idiots. they'll always find someone to hate. racism that's more subtle and attitude based is worse.

[AndrewT]

I kind of get what Rooky is saying - in an instance where someone has aggrieved you, then you may want to vex your anger at them. The objective of this would be to try and upset the other guy, therefore it's only sensible to pick topics of abuse which you think the other guy is most likely to take to heart. The colour of their skin would be such a thing. If his was fat, it could be his weight, if he was a spotty teenager it could be his acne etc.

Consider if Kramer had said absolutely nothing, and instead, run straight up to the black guy and decked him. Surely we'd all agree that physical violence is 'worse' than anything someone could say, but Kramer wouldn't be in as much trouble, would he?

[AdamM]

Consider if Kramer had said absolutely nothing, and instead, run straight up to the black guy and decked him. Surely we'd all agree that physical violence is 'worse' than anything someone could say, but Kramer wouldn't be in as much trouble, would he?

I think we've disagreed about this before Andrew.

I dont agree that your alternative scenario of him running over and decking him is worse. that's one guy attacking another. That's not OK but it's less serious than verbally abusing someone based on their religion, colour or sex. aiming your hatred for an ethnic group at a single individual is worse than aiming your anger about one specific person at the person themselves. If he'd called him an ignorant bastard for interupting him and punched him it would have been better than the stuff about "you people talk now...interupting a white man...etc"

You'd hope we could evolve past both physically attacking some one for winding us up AND from disliking/hating people we don't know based on the colour of their skin, but for me the latter is worse.

to answer the other point, I can't see that it's ever acceptable to abuse someone racially whether you mean it or not. saying something specifically to hurt them emotionally is as bad as attacking them physically. people should realise that words have consequences.

Funnily enough most racist I know would never dream of verballising their opinions to the ethnic groups in question. they make unpleasant comments when in all white company but 'politely' keep their opinions to themselves in mixed race situations. you can stop people behaving in a racist way but it's very hard to stop people thinking racist thoughts.
Wish I knew the answer

[Rooky9]

Consider if Kramer had said absolutely nothing, and instead, run straight up to the black guy and decked him. Surely we'd all agree that physical violence is 'worse' than anything someone could say, but Kramer wouldn't be in as much trouble, would he?

I think we've disagreed about this before Andrew.

I dont agree that your alternative scenario of him running over and decking him is worse. that's one guy attacking another. That's not OK but it's less serious than verbally abusing someone based on their religion, colour or sex. aiming your hatred for an ethnic group at a single individual is worse than aiming your anger about one specific person at the person themselves. If he'd called him an ignorant bastard for interupting him and punched him it would have been better than the stuff about "you people talk now...interupting a white man...etc"

You'd hope we could evolve past both physically attacking some one for winding us up AND from disliking/hating people we don't know based on the colour of their skin, but for me the latter is worse.

to answer the other point, I can't see that it's ever acceptable to abuse someone racially whether you mean it or not. saying something specifically to hurt them emotionally is as bad as attacking them physically. people should realise that words have consequences.

Funnily enough most racist I know would never dream of verballising their opinions to the ethnic groups in question. they make unpleasant comments when in all white company but 'politely' keep their opinions to themselves in mixed race situations. you can stop people behaving in a racist way but it's very hard to stop people thinking racist thoughts.
Wish I knew the answer

Subject is getting too difficult to discuss in the written form where it is more difficult to explain views. i think for now people would settle with preventing racist actions. The thinking part is impossible to control and as long as it remains without action will never be a problem.

I would personally prefer to be verbally abused that physically attacked.

[AndrewT]

I dont agree that your alternative scenario of him running over and decking him is worse. that's one guy attacking another. That's not OK but it's less serious than verbally abusing someone based on their religion, colour or sex. 

I really can't see how a physical attack can be less serious than calling someone names. Admittedly, as a skinny, white, male atheist I have very little personal experience of suffering abuse due to my colour/religion/gender/weight etc so I'm arguing from a theoretical viewpoint, but the logic seems flawed to me.

aiming your hatred for an ethnic group at a single individual is worse than aiming your anger about one specific person at the person themselves. If he'd called him an ignorant bastard for interupting him and punched him it would have been better than the stuff about "you people talk now...interupting a white man...etc"

Yes, but my point was that I don't think that Kramer was aiming his hatred for an ethnic group at a single individual - he was using the guy's ethnic background as the 'stick to beat him with'. If the heckler had happened to be a white man, I still think Kramer would have flown off the handle at him. He wouldn't have thought 'I'll leave him alone because he's white.'

You'd hope we could evolve past both physically attacking some one for winding us up AND from disliking/hating people we don't know based on the colour of their skin, but for me the latter is worse.

Refer above - I don't think Kramer did pick on the guy because he was black - he picked on him because he heckled, then used the colour of his skin to have a go at him. Completely unacceptable of course, but it doesn't mean Kramer attends KKK meetings.

to answer the other point, I can't see that it's ever acceptable to abuse someone racially whether you mean it or not. saying something specifically to hurt them emotionally is as bad as attacking them physically. people should realise that words have consequences.

I'm not saying that they don't have consequences, just that the consequences are less severe than physical attack.

Funnily enough most racist I know would never dream of verballising their opinions to the ethnic groups in question. they make unpleasant comments when in all white company but 'politely' keep their opinions to themselves in mixed race situations. you can stop people behaving in a racist way but it's very hard to stop people thinking racist thoughts.

Of course not, because they're cowards. This is why lots of physical racist attacks are performed by groups of people against a single individual - the perpetrators are cowards.