Seinfeld actor racist outburst

[AndrewT]

Tantrum, imagine you live in a country where every adult male was exactly six feet tall.

Britain is not 100% white anymore AndrewT (and probably never was) your analogy is pretty shallow. Try better to justify yourself. 

I'm not trying to justify anything. You seem to have got it into your head that myself (and others) have deeply entrenched positions which we are seeking to defend by picking holes in your arguments. I can't speak for the others, but that's not the case with me.

I just think that the opinions you have expressed on this thread don't always stand up to logical scrutiny, so I question them by constructing arguments against them.

Just to try and ensure we're all on the same page, I'm going to try and summarise your argument. Please correct anything I get wrong.

A person's skin colour has no effect on what type of person they are. With minority groups, a section of the population hold the view that people of different skin colour are inferior to themselves. Anytime one of these people refers to someone through their skin colour, the sentiment behind it is pejorative. Even though the word itself may be purely descriptive, the pejorative thought behind it means that the minority person could/would view the purely descriptive term as pejorative.

Here's where I think we differ. Your argument seems to be that, because situations like this exist, it works the other way. Because some people use descriptive words with pejorative thought behind them, that anyone who uses the same descriptive terms must have the same pejorative thoughts, simply because they used the same words.

I hope you do return to the thread Tantrum, because you a) seem to have a viewpoint which is different from mine and b) attempt to argue it in a grown-up manner, which is exactly what we need around here.

[tantrum]

I hope you do return to the thread Tantrum, because you a) seem to have a viewpoint which is different from mine and b) attempt to argue it in a grown-up manner, which is exactly what we need around here.

Why would I leave the thread?



The main point we differ on AndrewT is that you believe in a concept of universal truth and I don't. This is the main fundamental difference between me and you.  I don't presume anything, I just ask one question that have yet to receive satisfying answer.

But now must go and do some work, have a good day.

[SupaMonkey]

The use of Semiotics seems a tad hypocritical in this discussion.

[AndrewT]

I hope you do return to the thread Tantrum, because you a) seem to have a viewpoint which is different from mine and b) attempt to argue it in a grown-up manner, which is exactly what we need around here.

Why would I leave the thread?

I thought that's what this comment meant.

You are taking things out of context and i can't be bothered to reply anymore

The main point we differ on AndrewT is that you believe in a concept of universal truth and I don't. This is the main fundamental difference between me and you.  I don't presume anything, I just ask one question that have yet to receive satisfying answer.

If the question is:

I want to know why the colour is the first and foremost characteristic that you feel you need to describe 'the other'?

then I would answer that different people use different characteristics to describe people. You ignore skin colour and use other things. Good for you. Other people use skin colour, which is an immediate and obvious defining characteristic of a person's physical appearence. Does that make them 'wrong' or 'bad people'? I would say not. I suspect you disagree.

[matt674]

blimey, 5 pages about people's prejudices and still not one bad word against monkeys - thats got to be a new record!!

 

[Colchester Kev]

Context ,context,context.

When i was 17 and living in Luton, My best mate was a guy call Abraham, he was black. I used to go to the local Afro/Carribean Club with him and his Dad... (pints of light& bitter and curried patties..mmmmmmm memories) .. anyway they had a pool table in there and you had to put your name down and wait for your turn. Every time it was my turn, i would hear someone say who is Kevin, and would alwas hear the reply "the white lad over there" ..I NEVER thought of it as being racist and likewise when Abe was being described to anyone it was always "You know Abe, the coloured guy who wears the pork pie hat"

Using distinguishing features when describing someone is not (IMO) racist.

[ariston]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

[Rod Paradise]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

Not in this case, he lost the plot in a disgusting way, I'd have been looking to chin him if I'd been there.

[totalise]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

Not in this case, he lost the plot in a disgusting way, I'd have been looking to chin him if I'd been there.

racism unacceptable but gratuitous violence is fine? seems like a strange moral compass to me

[RED-DOG]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

Rough translation "I have no idea what this is about but here's my opinion anyway"  

[Rod Paradise]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

Not in this case, he lost the plot in a disgusting way, I'd have been looking to chin him if I'd been there.

racism unacceptable but gratuitous violence is fine? seems like a strange moral compass to me

Not gratuitous at all. His outburst was violent as well. I'm happy enough with my moral compass, what would yours have had you do?

[bolt pp]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

Rough translation "I have no idea what this is about but here's my opinion anyway"  

LOL

[tantrum]

Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it

why?

[ariston]

Not watched the clip and I will admit I only read the first page of this thread as it seemed like people may be getting to involved. For me anything goes with a stand up comedian. Any of you who have ever watched Chubby Brown and his like will know that if you heckle you may get burned, even if its racist and totally un pc you got to accept it.

Rough translation "I have no idea what this is about but here's my opinion anyway"  

LOL

well said red lol. I really do believe anything goes with comedians though

[tantrum]

well said red lol. I really do believe anything goes with comedians though

why don't you watch Krammer and tell us if his behaviour is acceptable and if it is funny?

As Kev said it is all about context.

Posted by: SupaMonkey


Insert Quote

The use of Semiotics seems a tad hypocritical in this discussion.

 why?

AndrewT

then I would answer that different people use different characteristics to describe people. You ignore skin colour and use other things. Good for you. Other people use skin colour, which is an immediate and obvious defining characteristic of a person's physical appearence. Does that make them 'wrong' or 'bad people'? I would say not. I suspect you disagree.

I don't disagree with this particular statement.

But one must be aware of the context and connotations.  I only object to the fact that some find the only characteristic valid in describing the other by using person's skin colour.  I don't ignore the skin colour per se.