Ace high good here?

[The_Diamond]

PokerStars Game #7260909484: Tournament #36701433, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (600/1200) - 2006/12/01 - 22:52:50 (ET)
Table '36701433 43' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: KGBCI (25200 in chips)
Seat 2: guyfrombc (12641 in chips)
Seat 3: poker304 (25090 in chips)
Seat 4: superman1975 (41205 in chips)
Seat 5: jp28810 (45255 in chips)
Seat 6: NickyOD (47651 in chips)
Seat 7: TomWy (7900 in chips)
Seat 8: slcikjim (10930 in chips)
Seat 9: cousinb1971 (7830 in chips)
KGBCI: posts the ante 75
guyfrombc: posts the ante 75
poker304: posts the ante 75
superman1975: posts the ante 75
jp28810: posts the ante 75
NickyOD: posts the ante 75
TomWy: posts the ante 75
slcikjim: posts the ante 75
cousinb1971: posts the ante 75
KGBCI: posts small blind 600
guyfrombc: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NickyOD [ ]
poker304: folds
superman1975: folds
jp28810: folds
NickyOD: raises 2400 to 3600
TomWy: folds
slcikjim: folds
cousinb1971: folds
KGBCI: folds
guyfrombc: calls 2400
*** FLOP *** [ ]
guyfrombc: checks
NickyOD: checks
*** TURN *** [ ]

guyfrombc: bets 8966 and is all-in
NickyOD:

[totalise]

what is the turn

[The_Diamond]

what is the turn

That was odd. It's there now Ten of diamonds.

[totalise]

ok. That ten is a real good card for you

if he was doing a stop and go with a pair, he prolly shoulda/woulda pushed the flop, and he isn't pushing trips on the turn (most of the time) so your hand is likely good. He could easily have picked up a flush draw on the turn with like QJ/QKd.... but getting 2/1 and a lack of a push on the flop from him, i'd call here.

[SupaMonkey]

Lol, i was going to say no. I think he has you here. He probably checked the flop expecting you to CB.

[totalise]

Lol, i was going to say no. I think he has you here. He probably checked the flop expecting you to CB.

with what though.. if he nailed the top pair, he(generally) isn't gonna bomb the pot with trips, and if he has a pp like 66/77, they (generally) tend to just ship it in on the flop (in my experience) instead of risking a free card. Its hard to put him on a hand, so seeing as the flush draw emerged on the turn, I'd just go ahead and give credit for that, as its the only move that makes a lot of sense.

I might well be wide of the mark of course.. my tourney days are prtty much over.

[The_Diamond]

ok. That ten is a real good card for you

if he was doing a stop and go with a pair, he prolly shoulda/woulda pushed the flop, and he isn't pushing trips on the turn (most of the time) so your hand is likely good. He could easily have picked up a flush draw on the turn with like QJ/QKd.... but getting 2/1 and a lack of a push on the flop from him, i'd call here.

Very nice analysis. I called. By the way. given the logic behind calling, is it bad for me not to jsut shove the flop?

NickyOD: calls 8966
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
guyfrombc: shows [ ] (two pair, Kings and Tens)
NickyOD: shows [ ] (a pair of Tens)

So to make up for that hand I had to go and do this. 

PokerStars Game #7261440704: Tournament #36701433, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (1000/2000) - 2006/12/01 - 23:27:33 (ET)
Table '36701433 43' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: KGBCI (11060 in chips)
Seat 3: Socks0814 (12847 in chips)
Seat 4: superman1975 (111923 in chips)
Seat 5: jp28810 (40076 in chips)
Seat 6: NickyOD (34885 in chips)
Seat 7: TomWy (16900 in chips)
Seat 8: slcikjim (28770 in chips)
Seat 9: cousinb1971 (22515 in chips)
KGBCI: posts the ante 100
Socks0814: posts the ante 100
superman1975: posts the ante 100
jp28810: posts the ante 100
NickyOD: posts the ante 100
TomWy: posts the ante 100
slcikjim: posts the ante 100
cousinb1971: posts the ante 100
jp28810: posts small blind 1000
NickyOD: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NickyOD [ ]
CardShark_yB is connected
TomWy: folds
slcikjim: folds
cousinb1971: folds
KGBCI: folds
Socks0814: folds
superman1975: folds
jp28810: raises 2000 to 4000
NickyOD: calls 2000
*** FLOP *** [ ]
jp28810: bets 2000
NickyOD: calls 2000
*** TURN *** [ ] []
jp28810: bets 2000
NickyOD: raises 6000 to 8000
jp28810: calls 6000
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
jp28810: bets 2000
NickyOD: raises 18785 to 20785 and is all-in
jp28810: folds
NickyOD collected 32800 from pot
NickyOD: doesn't show hand
CardShark_yB said, "nb"

[totalise]

I would defo have just shoved the flop, i thought i edited a post above to say that, but I guess not. 

[SupaMonkey]

Lol, i was going to say no. I think he has you here. He probably checked the flop expecting you to CB.

with what though.. if he nailed the top pair, he(generally) isn't gonna bomb the pot with trips, and if he has a pp like 66/77, they (generally) tend to just ship it in on the flop (in my experience) instead of risking a free card. Its hard to put him on a hand, so seeing as the flush draw emerged on the turn, I'd just go ahead and give credit for that, as its the only move that makes a lot of sense.

I might well be wide of the mark of course.. my tourney days are prtty much over.

Well, you were right on the money as per usual. Actually i didn't think his play made sense and i wondered why he would choose to wait until the turn if he called preflop with the intention to bluff. I thought his allin was him trying to con you into putting money into the pot when he had a very strong hand (that he had preflop or got lucky and hit the 10 on the flop). Is my thinking wrong here?

ps. i've just seen your post. I would have bet 4/5ths of the pot on the flop, effectively putting myself allin but not wanting to look desparate.

[totalise]

Lol, i was going to say no. I think he has you here. He probably checked the flop expecting you to CB.

with what though.. if he nailed the top pair, he(generally) isn't gonna bomb the pot with trips, and if he has a pp like 66/77, they (generally) tend to just ship it in on the flop (in my experience) instead of risking a free card. Its hard to put him on a hand, so seeing as the flush draw emerged on the turn, I'd just go ahead and give credit for that, as its the only move that makes a lot of sense.

I might well be wide of the mark of course.. my tourney days are prtty much over.

Well, you were right on the money as per usual. Actually i didn't think his play made sense and i wondered why he would choose to wait until the turn if he called preflop with the intention to bluff. I thought his allin was him trying to con you into putting money into the pot when he had a very strong hand (that he had preflop or got lucky and hit the 10 on the flop). Is my thinking wrong here?

ps. i've just seen your post. I would have bet 4/5ths of the pot on the flop, effectively putting myself allin but not wanting to look desparate.

its not necessarily wrong, but if you are checking the flop with the 10, you are doing it for a specific reason, and when the second 10 comes, those reasons still remain the same, and more importantly you can now afford to give a free card to your oppo. If you just had a 10 and the turn was a 6/7 or whatever, you cant afford to give someone a free chance at nailing their overcards, because their  check on the flop is indicative of someone who seems happy to try and take the free cards to hit. Obtusely, for all the above reasons, thats why its often ok to jam in spots like this (with a good hand), because they dont give you credit for a hand, but people dont do that, they are too scared you have nothing, so they check, and thats why you can find a call when they push.

As for the flop bet, its not gonna make much difference at all, he is either checking to fold or checking to get his stack in... so what you bet isn't impacting his decision. If you really wanted to go wild you could bet mega weak and try to induce a push, but sometimes in tourneys its best to take down pots rather then tryin to maximise EV in every spot.

[SupaMonkey]

Gotcha, thanks.