standard of live poker is getting scary....

[quantify]

we had an interesting conversation on the way to brighton on friday, the arif poker bus was trundling along the m25 doing 1 mph for 24 miles when a certain european number 1 saids to me , i hope i get all the good players on my table .
I said to him ....thats exctly whay i was hoping for, we then had a long discussion on the standards of live poker and how they seem to becoming just like the tinternet....   
The internet , as you would expect ,  is  a frightening place to play in the early parts of the tournements. MAINLY DUE TO THE LARGE NUMBERS OF NEW PLAYERS THAT SIT DOWN AND LEARN AT A TOURNEY TABLE. that will not change for years to come, and why should it because they put great added value into said tourneys. If you can get through the first 3 levels the donks seem to drop away and you can formulate your betting patterns to suit the players on the table , a perfect example of this is the pokerstars sunday million, great value, loads of chips . Playing big hands early gets you in serious trouble unless you put 15 times the big blind.   so you play suited and unsuited connectors see load of cheap flops and wham bang you are chipped up.

Now back to the subject of live poker , after playin non stop in 4 different countries in the last 12 weeks we had to settle back into the uk ranking tourneys in the search for those elusive points ..........


First stop Blackpool.  ..  6 touneys, most had 140 to 170 runners  .... it was like wading through treacle in flippers. now im not ofor talking about hands , in fact we have a rule in the shadows team bus , no poke3r talk or you get fined.   But all i could hear during the  Blackpool week was tale after tale from the established players.
Horror stories of people calling for gutshots all in , one guy called for all his chips intoi a one outer and hit.......ariston is far bettered suited to give specific examples as he was helpin djinn with reports , but i have to say it was the first time i have felt uncomfortable at a tourney ,,,  nothing was standard , you reraise to find out were you where   , get flat called than they would lead out when a rainbow rag turned.

next stop was straight to walsall.   my lucky casino.............  again massive fields full of complete fish , you get through 100 players and get moved to a table where the following happened..........  i raise under the gun with  55 i get reriased the minimum. i calll  ............

flop 582 rainbow............
i check............
he bets ............
i go all in .......................  expecting aa kk qq

 he thinks for 1 nanu second and calls for all but 1200 of his stack ....................one thing i forgot to mention this was in a £500 "buy in" tourney, in the second level , the levels were 45 minutes.

What did the guy have .................ak diamonds ,  the flop held one diamond,,,,,,   HE SAID TO ALL WHO WOULD LISTEN  "BEST HAND I HAVE HAD ALL DAY"  AND THEN HIT RUNNER RUNNER DIAMONDS TO KNOCK ME OUT..........................................................

I THINK I HEARD APPROXIMATLEY 20 OTHER HORROR STORIES THROUGHOUT THE WEEK. the problem is,, we are trying to make a living  these people have no idea what they are doing .........so scary.

NOW THEFINAL STOP IN THREE SOLID WEEKS OF POKER WAS ROYAL BRIGHTON...........

 i cant begin to explain what it was like playin at the rendevous ...........it was the worst experience i have ever had  playin any sport i can think of....i settled downon my table with a table full of players who should have had "l plates"  on.......... There was one decent plAYER on my table he looked over and said after the first level "we need to get off this table its horryifying".

here was more examples than i can care to remember , the worst culprit was a woman to my right who was guilty of calling down every street to hit gutshots .  callin down with 3rd pair and hitting 2 pair . one time a guy had kk she had q9 off..  he raised preflop she called flop j 9 2 rainbow . kk led out she called  turn ace..  he bet she called river queen he bet she called.

2nd example was a classic she had 67 flop 345 turn   9 river king ........... she called 500 flop 500 turn 1000 on the river WITH THE ABSOLUTE NUTS.



DESPITE HAVIN THE FOLLOWING STARTING HANDS IN THE FIRST LEVEL ON A ONE HOUR.   QQ QQ QQ KK KK AK AK TT............I WENT FROM 10 K TO 2400 K.
I CLAWED MY WAY BACK UP TO 10 K IN THE third LEVEL ,WHEN I WENT OUT WITH THE NUT FLUSH ON THE TURN i wont bore you with the betting but he went all in when the flush came,  i called ,,,,,,,,, then he said DAMN, I DIDNT GO ALL IN ON THE TURN COS I WAS WAS SCARED OF THE FLUSH..................................

but still l  went all in when the flush ahd come ............ yep u guessed it , he hit the case king to hit the fh........ has it hsppened there was 666 to my left this winner had 444 on flop and the terryfying women had kj (2 pair ).



Now i know the obvious answer from most people will be,,,,,  you want these people to be at your  table ,,  they also add value to the tournements...........

BUT, AND ITS A BIG BUT, HOW DO YOU PLAY THEM,, we drove back from brighton at 1 am  discussing this subject . standard raises no longer exist , you have to make it 8 times the bb and if you get callers you have to bomb the flop.  we discussed position and  how its effect is diluted by the clueslles callers of the reraise who then go all in by leading out , even though they havent got a clue where they are........................


i must admit i am , at this moment totally fed up with the whole thing.......... the grosvener events arent worth investing in for the whole week because it becomes a game more leaning towards roulette..............the ANSWER IS OUT THERE SOMEWHERE .


SEE YOU ALL AT LUTON TOMMOROW IS THE ANSWER ........................ 
ANY SENSIBLE COMMENTS WELCOME


SRRY FOR THE GRAMMAR CANT BE BOTHERED CHECKIN IT

[thetank]

I think the only answer when it gets really bad, is to tighten up, and raise more pre-flop when you do get dealt the premiums.

That or play everything on the cheap, and overbet when you hit big flops of 2 pair+.

[Royal Flush]

You keep the good ones, i will take the bad ones!

Ul with your A9, i saw the hand play out.

[AndrewT]

That's a hell of a lot of 50ps you owe.

It seems the thrust of your argument is 'bad players call me with rubbish cards - how do you play them?' The answer is to continue what you are doing, getting your chips in with the best of it. You will win in the long run. You just need a bankroll big enough to deal with the variance.

[I, Zimbra]

I hardly play live at all, but reading this makes me want to rush out and start... is that wrong?

[byronkincaid]

I posted ages ago that live players call more than internet players and I got laughed at. On 2+2 it seems to be accepted that live players are far fishier than internet players, but not here??? I don't play live enough to know the answer, maybe it just hurts more when you've got a 3 hour drive home to stew over your bad beat.

[Royal Flush]

I posted ages ago that live players call more than internet players and I got laughed at. On 2+2 it seems to be accepted that live players are far fishier than internet players, but not here??? I don't play live enough to know the answer, maybe it just hurts more when you've got a 3 hour drive home to stew over your bad beat.

I have being saying that for a while aswell, the standard live is far below that of online poker.

[TheJagster]

I agree with Flushy on this but you might find that it is the same people.

I play a better game on the tinternet than I do live! I can say that, I know it is true although the difference is a lot less than it used to be.

Im very used to playing on the net, I do it with other distractions like the telly and Im so used to it that it is sometimes boring.

The amount I play live however is a lot less, it is more of a novelty and it is sometimes an occasion for me. If I didnt have a day job I would play a lot more live as I enjoy it more than the net. But as it is I only get to play once or twice a fortnight - playing twice in a week is a real rarity for me.

The result - I do things that I wouldnt do online, and as I think I have a better performance on line, those variations, in the long run, are the wrong thing to do.

I think there are a lot of poker players the same as me, as the number of live card rooms expand and games become more accesible this will change, but an online game, especially cash or an stt will always be the easiest way to play for people like me who dont play for a living.

[Rozza1]

Very interesting and informing post.

I have played in the first two APAT live tournaments which is pretty much all my live experience.

However i have found that i personally play a much more balanced game live than online. It seems a lot easier to throw away the junk hands live than online when you just have to click the mouse.

I would say though that the nature of these two events has no doubt been different to the average festival event, with 10,000 starting chips and 40min levels it is possible to feel your way into the table and the event itself.

I hope to increase my live experience and not to come across as too much of a fish.

[tantrum]

quantify - if you want to practice how to play a table full of fish - go on any freeroll site (or very low buy in)and i can guarantee you after a week or so you will have them worked out.



One thing I must say that the rules of 'poker logic' do not apply to the full table or majority (6-7) of  really bad players.   Their hand selection is slightly different - any sooted will do, and connector, Ax/kx/jx/Qx is playable.  But those players are usually very easy to read.
 
check raise is not understood by those people, nor any other smart moves. 1/2 pot is seen as a weak bet against them/ they will not think what you have they only look at their cards...so it is you job to get used to what for them is a good hand- and cheap online  tourneys will teach you.

oh and bluffing doesn't work against majority of them if they have any piece of the board.

 gl next time.

[Cell 1919]

Having just been sent packing from an online tourney by a mid stack who raised my AK to all in with 56 suited I'd say it's hardly just the live games that suffer.

People are learning. At my expense sometimes, I guess. What did he think? That I was bluffing? That he has a soooted connector and therefore it had to be worth a shout?

God knows, but as a 'veteran' with only a few months play under my belt all I do is tighten up and let others engage. They'll be found out eventually.

[quantify]

i just got aa bustted by jj in will hill 40 k

kk busted against 77 in laddies


y and the 5th is the current onegot 46k in stars million averages 14k i played this tourney 5 times cashed 3 1 got nuked early.

ive worked the formula out  in stars just gotta work something for the  codheads

[thetank]

Is this not why we can all make bucket loads of money without doing much work?

[Boba Fett]

When playing on tables with really bad players you have to change your game entirely, you cant play "good" poker.  As someone has already suggested, playing smaller buy in tournaments is the answer.  If you usually play higher buyins then the prospect of a £10 freezeout or a £5 rebuy may seem like a waste of time but sitting with these players at these stakes is a great way to understand them.

[quantify]

thanxs for that bob . interestingly the first tourney i ever played wasa 100 erebuy  and i have never played in anything less in the time ive been playin . my lack of experience in lower levels cud be crucial .......... spending a full nite with the shoaLS  cud be a killer thyough.
 but you right if you want to know how they live ...... visit there home ty