The collapse of the comeback

[Muahahahaha]

Having played another couple of $5 with mixed results, I tried another $10. It was a 1500 starting stack, I had played it nice & tight, & earned a few chips. Shane_Hamilton plays a lot of hands.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1351663013: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (9519631), Table 1 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:12:30 ET - 2006/12/04
Seat 1: theok12 (2,990)
Seat 3: Shane_Hamilton (3,425)
Seat 5: Muahahahaha (2,330)
Seat 7: red_piranha (1,390)
Seat 8: Local_Fish (1,125)
Seat 9: matheus_bra (2,240)
red_piranha posts the small blind of 40
Local_Fish posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Muahahahaha 
matheus_bra folds
theok12 folds
Shane_Hamilton calls 80
Muahahahaha raises to 240
red_piranha folds
Local_Fish folds
Shane_Hamilton calls 160
*** FLOP *** 
Shane_Hamilton checks
Muahahahaha bets 320
Shane_Hamilton calls 320
*** TURN *** [ ]
Shane_Hamilton checks
Muahahahaha bets 720
Shane_Hamilton calls 720
*** RIVER *** [ ] 
Shane_Hamilton bets 720
Muahahahaha calls 720
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Shane_Hamilton shows [ ] (a straight, Queen high)
Muahahahaha mucks
Shane_Hamilton wins the pot (4,120) with a straight, Queen high
The blinds are now 50/100

The problem I had wth his hand was that I started off nice & confidant where I stood & got more & more confused as the hand went on.  In the end I thought I had to be beaten, but there was still a good chance he was bluffing at me, so with the pot already so high, I felt I had to call.

This guy didn't seem the type to slowplay AA/KK like this.  But should I be reading his betting as weak ( which I did ), or mega-strong. 

When the Q came on the flop I didn't have him as having AA/KK/AQ/JJ as I think hewould have raised preflop with them.  He came across as busy, but not very subtle.  So he might have 22.  Or he's drawing.  I couldn't really see much there that he'd want to call a preflop raise with that is helping him here.

So I bet out  320 into a 600 pot.  Continuation bet.  I expected him to fold, & I'd take it down, nice & simple.  The call was when I started to get confused.  The turn couln't possibly have helped him, and as I was so confidant I was in front before, I still had to be winning, didn't I.  Unless I'd missed something.  So should this be a half pot bet, pot sized, or overbet the pot. I don't want to give him a free card, so a 'slightly bigger than 50 % pot' bet is my when in doubt size bet, because apparantly that's big enough to make a call with a drawing hand a mistake ( most times anyway, so I'm told ).

Once he bets out I know he's hit something, coz that's more like the way he plays, but I have to bet that last 720 into 3400, just in case it's a bluff.

I feel a 5 fishy play coming on

 

Bring it on.  What did I miss , that I should have seen ?

[NoflopsHomer]

Raise more preflop for a start, you're giving him odds to call. If you do that, then the hand becomes a lot easier to play, since you can bet the flop and then push the turn. Incidentally, he should really move in on the river.

[boldie]

I have to agree with noflops here. by betting what you do you're giving him pot odds.

Having said that..this is exactly why open enders can be soo nice to flop. You're not letting him pay too much to hit and he knows you can't pass for his final bet.

[byronkincaid]

I am an idiot and misread this hand

[tantrum]

You say that Shane_Hamilton is playing a lot of hands, so what are you trying to achieve with your raise? and your hand?

He will most likely to call you there with any two anyway.

I personally thing that against cs - no point raising with hands like KQ/JK and so on as you need to hit your flop hard in order to get your money.  You either raise them more so they will pay for playing their connectors, or sometimes they might fold it or try to see a cheap flop and get the money post flop.

On the flop you have a top pair with ok kicker but there is a straight draw and 1/2 pot bet for those players is a weak bet, and they won't fold here if they are on a draw, so you either bet pot to make him pay for his draw, and on turn when the blank comes you should push it or pot it again, and he either calls without odds or folds.

No place for fancy game against cs IMO

[ifm]

With 6 still left in i wouldn't be raising with KQ, someone said the other day the idea here is to preserve chips, get them later on.

[tantrum]

With 6 still left in i wouldn't be raising with KQ, someone said the other day the idea here is to preserve chips, get them later on.

sure, no doubt about it, but if he is FTA, and the small stack/blinds are tight, a steal is possible, but re-raising with KQ- at STT against cs=suicide

[Muahahahaha]

Great response again -cheers.  If you lot don't help me improve my game, there's no hope.

Looking at them one step at a time

1)  Why not take a free card on the turn? then just fold the river.  Well TBH I thought I was winning, & I wanted him to go away & let me have my chips ( I do have a habit of getting possessive too early sometimes ).  But like I said, his postflop call did puzzle me, so I was slightly indecisive about the correct bet size, in case he had 22, or something I'd missed.

2) Raise more preflop for a start, you're giving him odds to call  I thought the preflop raise was about right.  How big would you make it then ? 

3)  what are you trying to achieve with your raise? and your hand?  This sounds incredibly simplistic, but I like KQ in late position.  I watch PNL & James Browning is a great fan of KQ in an unraised pot.  I assumed Shaneyboy had nothing, so I though I'd take it off him & stick a few more chips in my pile.  By raising I wanted to isolate, then I assumed ( wrongly ), unless a scary flop came, I'd bet out & just clean it up.  If I had nothing on the flop & I couldn't shake him off, then I'd give up & let him have it.

[TightEnd]

Great response again -cheers.  If you lot don't help me improve my game, there's no hope.

Looking at them one step at a time

1)  Why not take a free card on the turn? then just fold the river.  Well TBH I thought I was winning, & I wanted him to go away & let me have my chips ( I do have a habit of getting possessive too early sometimes ).  But like I said, his postflop call did puzzle me, so I was slightly indecisive about the correct bet size, in case he had 22, or something I'd missed.

2) Raise more preflop for a start, you're giving him odds to call  I thought the preflop raise was about right.  How big would you make it then ? 

3)  what are you trying to achieve with your raise? and your hand?  This sounds incredibly simplistic, but I like KQ in late position.  I watch PNL & James Browning is a great fan of KQ in an unraised pot.  I assumed Shaneyboy had nothing, so I though I'd take it off him & stick a few more chips in my pile.  By raising I wanted to isolate, then I assumed ( wrongly ), unless a scary flop came, I'd bet out & just clean it up.  If I had nothing on the flop & I couldn't shake him off, then I'd give up & let him have it.

,


James has a point, why not limp and then play it strong on flop and esp the turn?

[ifm]

3)  what are you trying to achieve with your raise? and your hand?  This sounds incredibly simplistic, but I like KQ in late position.  I watch PNL & James Browning is a great fan of KQ in an unraised pot.  I assumed Shaneyboy had nothing, so I though I'd take it off him & stick a few more chips in my pile.  By raising I wanted to isolate, then I assumed ( wrongly ), unless a scary flop came, I'd bet out & just clean it up.  If I had nothing on the flop & I couldn't shake him off, then I'd give up & let him have it.

Ok i get that but you need to be thinking what you want to hit here.
If i am raising (with any 2 cards at times) i have a clear idea of what i'm aiming for, a hand like KQ is easily dominated so top pair is not enough, i want an open ended straight draw or 2 pairs minimum to continue putting chips in AFTER the continuation bet.
The hardest thing to learn (i believe) is to let go of a hand, once mastered results improve.

[Muahahahaha]

With 6 still left in i wouldn't be raising with KQ, someone said the other day the idea here is to preserve chips, get them later on.  If I hadn't been on the button, I wouldn't have raised.  I think I'm playing pretty well up to now ( well, we can all dream, can't we ), so I expected my raise to have the respect it deserved  

sure, no doubt about it, but if he is FTA, and the small stack/blinds are tight, a steal is possible, but re-raising with KQ- at STT against cs=suicide FTA ?  Something tight aggressive ?  I tried to be.  I'd earned those chips over a couple of small pots, not one big hand.  I raised with the KQ, not  a reraise, so I'm not sure what this bit means.  Explain, please ? ( Pretty please )

[Wardonkey]

I would have passed pre-flop.....

[tantrum]

sure, no doubt about it, but if he is FTA, and the small stack/blinds are tight, a steal is possible, but re-raising with KQ- at STT against cs=suicide FTA ?  Something tight aggressive ?  I tried to be.  I'd earned those chips over a couple of small pots, not one big hand.  I raised with the KQ, not  a reraise, so I'm not sure what this bit means.  Explain, please ? ( Pretty please )

sry mis-type, raising the limpers with KQ at this level, esp the calling station who will call you 90% of the time.

I am basically saying KQ=fold at this stage, unless you are first to act, as you have 2 smaller stacks to your left you can try to steal their blinds, but the blinds are still small so fold really.

For one player raising 3xbb will make them fold, for others you have to bet 6-10bb in order to fold their junk.

on the flop, look at the texture of it and think what the other player can have, are they chasers or rocks, and so on.


You say that your opponent calls a lot, so 1. he won't fold to your 3xbb raise, 2. he likes to chase, 3, he is likely to call you to the river unless you bet hard.


If you want to take the pot down against cs- over bet it as - 1/2 pot is nth.

Wardonkey wrote excellent series of articles what are here on the forum about STT strategy, great read good helpful info.

GL

[boldie]

With 6 still left in i wouldn't be raising with KQ, someone said the other day the idea here is to preserve chips, get them later on.  If I hadn't been on the button, I wouldn't have raised.  I think I'm playing pretty well up to now ( well, we can all dream, can't we ), so I expected my raise to have the respect it deserved  

sure, no doubt about it, but if he is FTA, and the small stack/blinds are tight, a steal is possible, but re-raising with KQ- at STT against cs=suicide FTA ?  Something tight aggressive ?  I tried to be.  I'd earned those chips over a couple of small pots, not one big hand.  I raised with the KQ, not  a reraise, so I'm not sure what this bit means.  Explain, please ? ( Pretty please )

Just to explain FTA is first to act.

[tantrum]

cs= calling station