KK - set on turn

[doubleup]

Table 'Eumelos' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: jdoles214 ($1165.20 in chips)
Seat 2: HaveMyCash ($408.25 in chips)
Seat 3: xray ($199.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Chris_55555 ($412 in chips)
Seat 5: lcp3557 ($828.60 in chips)
Seat 6: CharityCse ($565 in chips)
Seat 7: davmcg ($357.90 in chips)
Seat 8: karmync01 ($292.55 in chips)
Seat 9: swiftnick13 ($505 in chips)
swiftnick13: posts small blind $2
jdoles214: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to davmcg [ ]
HaveMyCash: folds
xray: folds
Chris_55555: folds
lcp3557: folds
CharityCse: folds
davmcg: raises $12 to $16
karmync01: folds
swiftnick13: calls $14
jdoles214: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [ ]
swiftnick13: checks
jdoles214: checks
davmcg: bets $32
swiftnick13: calls $32
jdoles214: calls $32
*** TURN *** [ ] []
swiftnick13: checks
jdoles214: checks

Both players are fairly loose

What's do you do and why?

[boldie]

bet again. One of them is bound to call if they call 32$ on that flop. There's about 120$ in the pot..50$ might get rid of one of them but shouldn't get rid of both.

[Highstack]

Well I'm just wondering what sort of hands they can call that 4bb bet with preflop and call the flop bet when out of position.

With a bit of luck you are playing against AK, AA or a lower set. T9 certainly shouldn't be in, although as you are all pretty deep, bb would have massive implied pre to hit the flop, but I think he bets flop .. therefore.. hoping and assuming one of 3 I have mentioned, I can safely bet.

I want to bet enough to get hopefully check raised here. The pot is $144 and I have around $300 back so I like a bet of around $60 here.

[doubleup]

Sorry - shouldve included in post that both players are quite loose pre-flop

[boldie]

Sorry - shouldve included in post that both players are quite loose pre-flop

still I raise. sure A10 and 9T could be in but I am not handing out more free cards. (I take it one of them had 9T sooted and busted you?)

[doubleup]

Sorry - shouldve included in post that both players are quite loose pre-flop

still I raise. sure A10 and 9T could be in but I am not handing out more free cards. (I take it one of them had 9T sooted and busted you?)

No that didn't happen...

[doubleup]

Anyway I checked - my reasons for doing so was that vs 2 players I thought that the str8 was a possibility and I would get stacked.  I'm not sure that there are that many hands that I stack in return, but they will call a value bet on the river.   

There arent many hands that improve with a free card,and there are hands that improve enough for me to get a pay-off from them.  So I just need to avoid another broadway card - (which is an easy fold) and call or raise or value bet the river.

What do you think? 

[moritzey]

So I just need to avoid another broadway card - (which is an easy fold)

Surely another broadway card is exactly what you want? Your full house over their trips or fh?

Wouldn't want to give a free card, though, as any ten or ace or nine would send you packing on the river. As boldie said, bet something around the $50 mark, and then reconsider on the river. Lowcard would be nice, broadway would be nice, 9,T,A wouldn't be, but there would still be a fair chance that you're ahead, after all, unless your opponent has AK, he would have had to call $50 on the turn with a gutshot and second-pair or worse - not too likely?

[boldie]

Anyway I checked - my reasons for doing so was that vs 2 players I thought that the str8 was a possibility and I would get stacked.  I'm not sure that there are that many hands that I stack in return, but they will call a value bet on the river.   

There arent many hands that improve with a free card,and there are hands that improve enough for me to get a pay-off from them.  So I just need to avoid another broadway card - (which is an easy fold) and call or raise or value bet the river.

What do you think? 

well a 9 or ten or Ace on the river would screw you . but if that doesn't come then you can bet it again.

I however would bet the turn to get more dosh in the pot. When I have top set in a cash game and two willing callers (of whom the only likely holding is 9 T sooted for the straight as that would mean he was open ended on the flop and could be calling your 32$ raise..I don't see many people do that with A10 hoping for the king) and 3 possible danger cards to drop I make them pay to see the river..I don't want to get screwed for free. .

[doubleup]

So I just need to avoid another broadway card - (which is an easy fold)

Surely another broadway card is exactly what you want? Your full house over their trips or fh?

another broadway not there already.


Which of course came......

what do you think of the chat from jdoles?

*** RIVER *** [ ]

swiftnick13: bets $40 jdoles214 said, "wow" jdoles214 said, "nice runners" jdoles214: calls $40 davmcg said, "kkk" davmcg: folds *** SHOW DOWN *** swiftnick13: shows [ ] (a straight, Ten to Ace) jdoles214: shows [ As] (a straight, Ten to Ace)

[Royal Flush]

T9 certainly shouldn't be in

 

[TightEnd]

thats a terrific fold. I'd probably have stacked off there against loose opponents.

[Highstack]

What's wrong now flushy? Will hell freeze over before you ever agree with me?

Would you not expect an out of position T9 to lead on that flop?

[Royal Flush]

Would you not expect an out of position T9 to lead on that flop?

I am no cash game expert but i am pretty sure that if you flop a draw OOP on a board that is likely to have connected with the pre flop raiser then it is best NOT to try to swell the pot, and give him a chance to take it away from you before you see another card.

So to answer your question, no. I would expect a c/c or c/r

[Highstack]

But we're not betting the draw to swell the pot. Unless we are against  another strong hand as in the example, we may not get paid IF and when we complete our draw. If you are going to play T9 out of position preflop then this is a decent flop for it and leading out may give you an extra way to take the pot. No guarantee to complete, you can still pass if you are priced out with a raise and you are controlling the bet soze. Check call and teh draw is more transparent, so the implied odds of completing are no longer there.