What do you need to call?

[kinboshi]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

I'd had a bigger stack, but my pocket kings lost to AK second hand of Day 2, and that halved my stack.  A few hours later, and I'm struggling to stay afloat, and looking to make a move to double up in order to stay alive and put me in a position where I can play some poker - rather than just fold or push short-stack play.

I think you're misunderstanding my question.  I wasn't looking for a spot to call all-in.  I was asking what conditions would be right for me to make the all-in call, whilst at the same time I'm raising and re-raising all-in in other hands.  I'd been happy to push with K2o, 33, and even 74o (as well as decent hands) - but that was taking the opportunity when it arose.

I wasn't just sitting there waiting to call an all-in push from the hyper-aggressive player on my right.

I have not missed the point at all. My response higher up suggests my range. I was replying to Bazza and Boldie.

I get you.  I thought the bit in bold was referring to me resorting to calling the big stack's push when I should have been looking to push myself rather than looking to call the all-in (which is what I was doing, I just happened to have a hand good enough to call with).

I don't think I would have called with a medium pair (77-TT) as even though I'd probably be favourite, I can probably avoid the potential coin-flip and get the benefit of being first-in in another hand, rather than calling all-in.

[kinboshi]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

I think that you are placing too much emphasis on the clock here.  OP is a hundred miles from the money and has a well below average stack.  He can't wait for AA.  He has to take a risk.  I've never been lucky enough in an big event to have someone clearly pushing with any two on my immediate right.  To wait for AK or better is giving him the respect you would give a standard tourney player.  i.e. middle position raise - you move in with your AK.

Exactly! He is a hundred miles from the pay. Will winning a [potential race (albeit as favourite) guarantee a pay day?  His stack to other stacks might be under pressure, but he can wait 2 orbits (20 hands) to find something playable if he doesn't like the spot. Obviously AK is a call, but why gamble with weak hands? If I am expanding my range it might include medium pocket pairs, but even then I would often expect to be in a race situation.

We're playing 8-handed tables, and ours is down to 7.  So the blinds are coming round much quicker as well.  Just thought I'd add that.

[Highstack]

I think you also have to factor in the likely standard of the said nutter. He may appear that way (so would Gus) but he is on the second day of a fully stacked live event with a high buy in and a top class field. He has chips together and that would suggest that although he could still be a lunatic, there is a fair chance that he is a better class of lunatic than you are likely to encounter in an on-line game with a 10 minute blind structure. A loosey goosey could still be picking his spots, for hands, position and opponents. With the obvious exception of the o/p, none of us have any info on the times he has actually been called down or what hands he has shown so far.

[Highstack]

We're playing 8-handed tables, and ours is down to 7.  So the blinds are coming round much quicker as well.  Just thought I'd add that.

Was he jamming just about every hand or if passed to him? There will no doubt be times when he passes from EP. If he is utg +1/2 you can raise from cut-off and more likely get respected from other opps who have seen you play tight with a dwindling stack (obv before your stack becomes an auto-call for atc).

[kinboshi]

I think you also have to factor in the likely standard of the said nutter. He may appear that way (so would Gus) but he is on the second day of a fully stacked live event with a high buy in and a top class field. He has chips together and that would suggest that although he could still be a lunatic, there is a fair chance that he is a better class of lunatic than you are likely to encounter in an on-line game with a 10 minute blind structure. A loosey goosey could still be picking his spots, for hands, position and opponents. With the obvious exception of the o/p, none of us have any info on the times he has actually been called down or what hands he has shown so far.

Of course that makes sense, and yes he was a decent player.  Very loose and aggressive. He bought his seat, so I guess the money isn't a problem for him - and he's looking for a final table place rather than just making the money (he actually finished 15th in the end).

He'd raised and re-raised all-in and showed a whole range of cards - T3o, KK, 54s, TT, and of course 75o.  From where I was sitting, his play made very good sense - as he knew that he could steal a number of pots without being called - and even if he is called, he can still get lucky and win.  Definitely a fearless player, who wasn't afraid of losing half of his chips pushing with crap.  But he was choosing his moments carefully.  He knew that for anyone to call, they'd need a decent hand or be willing to gamble their tournament life on a coin-flip.

[kinboshi]

We're playing 8-handed tables, and ours is down to 7.  So the blinds are coming round much quicker as well.  Just thought I'd add that.

Was he jamming just about every hand or if passed to him? There will no doubt be times when he passes from EP. If he is utg +1/2 you can raise from cut-off and more likely get respected from other opps who have seen you play tight with a dwindling stack (obv before your stack becomes an auto-call for atc).

No, he wasn't jamming every hand.  He made sure he didn't jam when the other large stacks were involved.  He wouldn't move all-in from the SB on my BB, unless he was the first or second into the pot.

But there were other players on the table of almost equal aggression.  So it seemed to be one of the three making a play at the pot almost every hand. 

I was pushing when I thought I could take down the blinds, or ideally if I had a decent hand, get called and double up.

[Royal Flush]

I am going along the same line as boldie here, 77/88+ QJ+ KQ+ A8+

To not call vs a super lag here is madness, as HighStack has pointed out this is a high quality field (and no offence to Kin) where the OP is probably below average in skill terms, certainly in experience terms, so EVERY SINGLE POSITIVE EV situation should be taken.

65% is huge Kin, no-one is good enough to pass as a 65% fave.

[kinboshi]

I am going along the same line as boldie here, 77/88+ QJ+ KQ+ A8+

To not call vs a super lag here is madness, as HighStack has pointed out this is a high quality field (and no offence to Kin) where the OP is probably below average in skill terms, certainly in experience terms, so EVERY SINGLE POSITIVE EV situation should be taken.

65% is huge Kin, no-one is good enough to pass as a 65% fave.

I'm not on about the AK-suited.  That's why I called with it and my chips were in before he'd finished saying all-in.

I was just wondering, if I hadn't had AK, what other hands would have been strong enough to call with.  Not too sure if I would have called with 77 here.  Although, it would have been the best hand to have in hindsight!

[boldie]

I am going along the same line as boldie here, 77/88+ QJ+ KQ+ A8+

To not call vs a super lag here is madness, as HighStack has pointed out this is a high quality field (and no offence to Kin) where the OP is probably below average in skill terms, certainly in experience terms, so EVERY SINGLE POSITIVE EV situation should be taken.

65% is huge Kin, no-one is good enough to pass as a 65% fave.

I'm not on about the AK-suited.  That's why I called with it and my chips were in before he'd finished saying all-in.

I was just wondering, if I hadn't had AK, what other hands would have been strong enough to call with.  Not too sure if I would have called with 77 here.  Although, it would have been the best hand to have in hindsight!

But essentially in a lot of situations against this player 77+ is ahead and therefore against this player you can call/push with it.

[Royal Flush]

I am going along the same line as boldie here, 77/88+ QJ+ KQ+ A8+

To not call vs a super lag here is madness, as HighStack has pointed out this is a high quality field (and no offence to Kin) where the OP is probably below average in skill terms, certainly in experience terms, so EVERY SINGLE POSITIVE EV situation should be taken.

65% is huge Kin, no-one is good enough to pass as a 65% fave.

I'm not on about the AK-suited.  That's why I called with it and my chips were in before he'd finished saying all-in.

I was just wondering, if I hadn't had AK, what other hands would have been strong enough to call with.  Not too sure if I would have called with 77 here.  Although, it would have been the best hand to have in hindsight!

But essentially in a lot of situations against this player 77+ is ahead and therefore against this player you can call/push with it.

Not just ahead but often in 70-30 territory!

[kinboshi]

Absolutely, it's often ahead, but it's also often well behind or a coin flip at best.  The question is how often, and does it justify putting the tournament survival on the line?

Like most things, it seems that people view it very differently - and so play it differently. 

I'm still not sure what I would have done with 77 - or 99, 66, 55 or 44 for that matter.