What do you need to call?

[kinboshi]

Day 2 of the EPT event in Copenhagen.  You are fairly short-stacked with 18,000 and the blinds are 600/1,200 with 100 antes.

To your immediate right is the table bully and chip leader.  He's not shy of shoving all of his chips in, especially when it's folded round to him in the small blind.

He's shown that he's willing to make the push with ATC based solely on his chip stack.

So, my question is what cards do you need to make the call in the big blind when he shoves from the small blind? 

[matt674]

I'd rather be the one pushing in the small blind for all my chips rather than calling all in putting my tournament life on the line, at the end of the day 18000 is still plenty of chips to play with.

Hard to give a specific range as each situation is different and i would always go with my gut instinct with the information on my opponent i have to hand while playing the tournament itself.

[doubleup]

First - do you have to gamble with him?  i.e is this happening every round and you are getting no opportunies to play - e.g he is stealing in the cutoff before you get the chance in the button.

If you have to A9-AK 77-AA any other two paint for me.

I actually looked at a table in Sklanskys NL book his range is huge for this situation, but he is just covering the straight ev, in a tourney I think a bit tighter is required.

[kinboshi]

I'd rather be the one pushing in the small blind for all my chips rather than calling all in putting my tournament life on the line, at the end of the day 18000 is still plenty of chips to play with.

Hard to give a specific range as each situation is different and i would always go with my gut instinct with the information on my opponent i have to hand while playing the tournament itself.

He is willing to shove with 72o.  You know that much.  So do you just let him take your blind whenever he wants and look to take your chances elsewhere?

The problem here was that I wasn't getting an opportunity to take my battle elsewhere.  The table has been extremely aggressive, and there are two of us at the table who are the short stacks.  Virtually every pot is raised before it gets to me, unless I'm UTG! 

[Graham C]

If that's the case, then probably any of the hands that doubleup has posted I'd go with.  Ideally, I'd like to avoid mid/low pairs and would be looking for AT or above, but it's not always possible and I'd just have to go with my gut feeling next time I had one of these hands. 

Of course, it's sods law that the time you do take a stand, he'll have a better hand

[Highstack]

EPT's have a decent clock on them so why do you need to gamble at all?

You should not be concerned that you are short stacked on the table, but more concerned of your stack to blind ratio and here you have about another two rounds before you are in a desperate situation that needs to push with a wider range. Therefore, it is solid premium hands only for me to call him with.

You act after him, so you have the added value of knowing if/when you do find a hand that you are likely to get paid for it. Big pairs are a certain call for me, AK also and possiblty AQ - that is about it.

Many other hands might be considered playable where you might get in as a marginal favourite and you can tell everyone at the bar just how unlucky you have been.

[kinboshi]

Of course I didn't want to call an all-in.  Ideally, I'd be able to pass and wait for a better chance where I can push instead of calling.

Some of you will already know, I called his push with AcKc.  He showed 7h5s, and hit a 7 on the river.  I was 65/35 favourite, but is that enough to put my tournament on the line?  It was also the first time I'd called all-in in the tournament.

At the time I was thinking that AA-JJ or AK and I'm calling (but I'm not sure on the wisdom of that, hence this thread) - anything else, and it's in the muck.  The blinds were soon going up to 800/1,600 and to have any chance of moving up the ladder and getting into a decent spot, I'd need to double up as taking down the blinds every now and again was just keeping my head above water.

He was playing his big stack very well, as were two others on the table.  Made things very interesting, and very difficult!  Great fun though.

[doubleup]

Given the situation I think your calling range is too tight.  You are almost always going to be gambling - the only thing that you are trying to minimise with the calling range is the possiibility that you are behind.

In the situation you describe, a player pushing with any two is an absolutely fantastic opportunity to double up.  Being too tight in this scenario is a bad mistake.l 

[boldie]

Given the situation I think your calling range is too tight.  You are almost always going to be gambling - the only thing that you are trying to minimise with the calling range is the possiibility that you are behind.

In the situation you describe, a player pushing with any two is an absolutely fantastic opportunity to double up.  Being too tight in this scenario is a bad mistake.l 

I agree...any two facecards and middle + pocket pair (7's +)will do for me against nut jobs.

I would much rather push myself though, say someone raised to 3600. that's when you push.

Your call with AK was of course a good one, but you know you're always going to be in a race if you don't have a high pocket pair.

[Bazzaboy]

Given the situation I think your calling range is too tight.  You are almost always going to be gambling - the only thing that you are trying to minimise with the calling range is the possiibility that you are behind.

In the situation you describe, a player pushing with any two is an absolutely fantastic opportunity to double up.  Being too tight in this scenario is a bad mistake.l 

I agree.  I beat him into the pot with many weaker hands than AK

[Highstack]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

[kinboshi]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

I'd had a bigger stack, but my pocket kings lost to AK second hand of Day 2, and that halved my stack.  A few hours later, and I'm struggling to stay afloat, and looking to make a move to double up in order to stay alive and put me in a position where I can play some poker - rather than just fold or push short-stack play.

I think you're misunderstanding my question.  I wasn't looking for a spot to call all-in.  I was asking what conditions would be right for me to make the all-in call, whilst at the same time I'm raising and re-raising all-in in other hands.  I'd been happy to push with K2o, 33, and even 74o (as well as decent hands) - but that was taking the opportunity when it arose.

I wasn't just sitting there waiting to call an all-in push from the hyper-aggressive player on my right.

[doubleup]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

I think that you are placing too much emphasis on the clock here.  OP is a hundred miles from the money and has a well below average stack.  He can't wait for AA.  He has to take a risk.  I've never been lucky enough in an big event to have someone clearly pushing with any two on my immediate right.  To wait for AK or better is giving him the respect you would give a standard tourney player.  i.e. middle position raise - you move in with your AK.

[Highstack]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

I'd had a bigger stack, but my pocket kings lost to AK second hand of Day 2, and that halved my stack.  A few hours later, and I'm struggling to stay afloat, and looking to make a move to double up in order to stay alive and put me in a position where I can play some poker - rather than just fold or push short-stack play.

I think you're misunderstanding my question.  I wasn't looking for a spot to call all-in.  I was asking what conditions would be right for me to make the all-in call, whilst at the same time I'm raising and re-raising all-in in other hands.  I'd been happy to push with K2o, 33, and even 74o (as well as decent hands) - but that was taking the opportunity when it arose.

I wasn't just sitting there waiting to call an all-in push from the hyper-aggressive player on my right.

I have not missed the point at all. My response higher up suggests my range. I was replying to Bazza and Boldie.

[Highstack]

On line carpshoots I agree, but this is an EPT event with a 60 or 90 minute clock. I would have called with your AK, but I am not gambling with much less here. Some of you are suggesting 2 face cards. You are behind to weak aces and that is often pushing hands for maniacs so why gamble for your tournament when you don't need to?

I thoroughly expect the response to this to be .... yes but he is playing to win. That would be a b/s argument as he would have been raising and reraising a much wider range rather tahn getting shorter and picking a spot to CALL all in.

There is plenty of time to find a hand still.

I think that you are placing too much emphasis on the clock here.  OP is a hundred miles from the money and has a well below average stack.  He can't wait for AA.  He has to take a risk.  I've never been lucky enough in an big event to have someone clearly pushing with any two on my immediate right.  To wait for AK or better is giving him the respect you would give a standard tourney player.  i.e. middle position raise - you move in with your AK.

Exactly! He is a hundred miles from the pay. Will winning a [potential race (albeit as favourite) guarantee a pay day?  His stack to other stacks might be under pressure, but he can wait 2 orbits (20 hands) to find something playable if he doesn't like the spot. Obviously AK is a call, but why gamble with weak hands? If I am expanding my range it might include medium pocket pairs, but even then I would often expect to be in a race situation.