Poll - Tournament Poser

[Milkybarkid]

What do you reckon?

[Milkybarkid]

Doh it missed out the whole question... here it is in full.

You are down to the last three tables of the WSOP. You are sitting with 200,000 chips and the chip average is around 100,000. There are 22 players left. Blinds 3000/6000. Under the gun raises to 25,000 to play and you look down at KK and reraise to 50000. Under the gun thinks for a while then calls. Flop J74 rainbow and your opponent bets out 50000 in to a 108000 chip pot. What do you do now?

[Milkybarkid]

Tikay will remember this hand in Monte Carlo..... i will post what happened later.

[AdamM]

Is it much of a poser really?
I personally don't think I'd be going 25k with 25k pre-flop with K,K there. more likely to raise to 100k. if he puts them all in there, even if you figure for absolute certain he has A,A and you're a remarkable enough player to put the kings down pre-flop (never met a man who is) then you still have average chips.

 if he calls 100k and an Ace comes on the flop you can still have average chips if you beleive him for an Ace and have to pass.

if the J,7,4 flop comes and you've bet 100k pre flop he can surely only beat you with A,A. If you've bet 50k he could well have A,A or a set of jacks, sevens or fours, aswell as A,J, A,Q or A,K depending on his style. you can't know where you are but you still have to stick it in. you can't take a flop and wait for a 3rd king before you bet can you.

The fact it's WSOP any you're climbing the money ladder shouldn't stop you playing the big hands like this one surely.

[Milkybarkid]

No its not really that much of a poser!!

We were down to three tables in Monte Carlo when this happened. After the flop when the the guy bet 50k the player with KK passed. He flipped them over and said, "You have got two Aces i pass." The other guy showed QK. It was honestly one of the worst plays i had ever seen. Everyone watching and playing couldn't believe it. He gave up a pot with 158000 in it...... 

[AdamM]

you agree with me about the pre-flop action aswell?

[Milkybarkid]

Yes the preflop action isn't how i would play it. I would never raise only 25K with KK in this position. With only 22 players left you are giving him the right pot odds to call with any hand by raising that much. I would be inclined to raise it to either 75 or 100k. At that stage and double the chip count i'd be happy to take down a 40k pot there and then.

[jonthomson]

Doh it missed out the whole question... here it is in full.

You are down to the last three tables of the WSOP. You are sitting with 200,000 chips and the chip average is around 100,000. There are 22 players left. Blinds 3000/6000. Under the gun raises to 25,000 to play and you look down at KK and reraise to 50000. Under the gun thinks for a while then calls. Flop J74 rainbow and your opponent bets out 50000 in to a 108000 chip pot. What do you do now?

Depends on how many chips the other guy had, but I'd probably move in here.

[tikay]

Well, when the guy passed his KK on a J-7-4 flop, & then SHOWED KK, there was an audible gasp from the whole table. Then Matey Boy showed his KQ.......

One of the most remarkable laydowns I have ever seen.

Would anyone else have passed that hand, on that flop, at that stage?

[Ironside]

Well, when the guy passed his KK on a J-7-4 flop, & then SHOWED KK, there was an audible gasp from the whole table. Then Matey Boy showed his KQ.......

One of the most remarkable laydowns I have ever seen.

Would anyone else have passed that hand, on that flop, at that stage?

as a player that ran into AA from matey boy with the largest stack on the table at the vic last summer after fighting back form a short stack at the start of day2  to have 2nd largest stack on the table with 14 players left i know for certain i cant laydown KK and it still hurts

[tikay]

Well that was horrible Ironside, but how many times out of a 100 would your play have proven correct? 90? 95? Certainly, it can't be passed in that situation, unless you are, I dunno, a Blackpool player?

[Bongo]

Would anyone else have passed that hand, on that flop, at that stage?

Sometimes I think people outplay themselves 

[Ironside]

Well that was horrible Ironside, but how many times out of a 100 would your play have proven correct? 90? 95? Certainly, it can't be passed in that situation, unless you are, I dunno, a Blackpool player?

i know it was the right play doesnt make it any less painfull thinking about what might have been if i had doubled up then

i might have even made a final table (MIGHT)

[Milkybarkid]

I found the blog of the guy who played this hand..... here is what he says about it

Then came the defining misplayed hand of the tournament for me, and the reason I didn't coast to the day four final table with the chip lead. Romain came on strong from first position with a raise to 20K. I re-raised him to 50K on the strength of my pair of kings. The decision came back to Romain, who was visibly tortured. For several minutes, he agonized over the decision. Having just read Mike Caro's book of poker tells, I became quite certain that Romain was sitting on aces, and was putting on a performance for the ages. If he came back all in after all that showboating, I was going to lay down the kings, just to be safe, since my luck seemed to be souring. The last thing I wanted was to flame out in 9th place and miss the final table, and televised infamy. I began to hope very strenuously that he would fold. Instead, he did something that I never saw coming - he called. I didn't know what to make of that, as I had eliminated that play from his possible options, regardless of what he was holding.

The flop came jack high, and again Romain agonized for awhile, before reluctantly pushing in 75K. Now, that was far and away the biggest bet that I had seen at this table - not exactly a bet designed to induce a call. If I was going to play, I had to go all in. I still thought that he had aces. I gave him credit for being a world-class player. It was only later that I learned that he is just a fantastically rich guy who is playing poker because it is the new big thing. I thought that my preflop reraise gave away my hand as either KK or QQ, and knowing that it would become an all-in battle, he wished to see me miss the flop before pushing his chips in. When he pushed in 75K, I assumed he felt extremely safe with that flop. I laid down my kings and showed them, knowing that I would be making the laydown of a lifetime when he showed his aces. When he saw my kings, Romain's eyes nearly popped out of his head, and he eagerly showed his hand - KQ - a stone cold bluff. Nobody could believe it. In my mind, I was giving up my 50K for a chance to live on, but now, it was evident that I missed a major opportunity to win at least 125K of Romain's stack. Rob Hollink said, with his Dutch accent, "I never make that laydown. If it happens that I finish ninth instead of first, because my kings were facing aces, then that is the way it is going to be." Sage words that I wish were in my head before, not after, I made the laydown.

[Junior Senior]

terrible lay down IMHO.

in fact... really terrible! - i had missed this play at the time and hadn't realised this had happened. - wow! - sucks!