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Author Topic: Live Hand Situation  (Read 1339 times)
Boba Fett
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« on: February 17, 2007, 05:43:31 PM »

This situation came up a few weeks ago in a tourney, looking for thoughts on how this could have been played differently.

£10 rebuy, freezeout stages down to 3 tables, blinds are 300/600. Overall standard tends to be pretty bad and with the blinds going up quickly its getting to the stage where a lot of players start to get short stacked and fire their chips in to either double up or go home.

Im on the SB with 92 offsuit and have around 9k in chips which seems to be above average.  Action gets to me with 1 player flat calling and everyone else folding.  Flat caller is in late position,is a very solid player and has around 5k in chips.  I want to call and look over at the BB who had 1500 left after puttig in the BB and looks like he could fire the rest of the 1500 in with any half decent hand.

I dont mind making up the SB to see a flop but obviously dont want to put the extra 1500 in pre flop if he pushes.  I look over and he has seen his cards and doesnt look like he's going to raise so I call and he checks.

Pot is 1800

Flop comes 9 7 3 with 2 spades.  Im hoping the BB has some part of it and will go all in and I want rid of the other guy to get it heads up with me and the BB.  I bet 1000 giving the BB an all in or fold decision, he checks his cards, looks reluctant but pushes all in for 1500 total.  The other player looks at his cards for a while and eventually calls, I put in the extra 500.  Im pretty sure Im ahead of the BB all in man and although Im no sure what the other guy has that had him limp pre flop then flat call after a bet/raise all in but Im sure that if he had a hand he would have raised already so I think Im ahead.  Such is the nature of the players in the tourney Im thinking at least 1 has a flush draw.

Pot is now 6200

Turn is an offsuit King, Im not overly happy with my 2nd pair no kicker and know the other guy wont bet unless he has something now, especially since there's an all in guy.  I check, he checks. 

River is a ten so any flushes have missed.  I check and the other guy pushes all in for about 3k, I have 7k left and the pot is now almost 10k.  I fold because Im pretty sure Im beat. He's not the type of player to push with anything less than a big hand in this situation so I dont think he's bluffing me out of it with a busted flush draw.  Im thinking he either had a flush draw with KT and hit runner runner 2 pair or he has a straight with QJ (probably suited to the flush draw which would explain the call on the flop), J8 (again probably suited to the flush draw to explain the call on the flop) or 86 with the open ended straight on the flop.

As it turned out, I folded and he had 86 for the straight, the BB had 74 for middle pair when putting his money in.  The guy who won the pot then said he called the 1500 on the flop because he was open ended, knew I couldnt reraise the flop after he called and thought I would probably check it down so he would get the chance to draw at it without putting any more in.

I was kinda annoyed with myself for letting him draw for free so was thinking how could I play it differently so my questions are-

- Should I be making up the SB with this junk in this situation?
- Should I have bet the flop at all?  If so how much?
- I bet the flop willing to call if the BB goes all in, if we're deciding that Im definately betting then should I bet 750 or less so that if he does go all in Ill have the option of reraising?  I think if I had bet less and the BB pushed then the mid position limper might have to reraise to get rid of me or fold thinking I may reraise and I get heads up with the BB.
-Should I have bet/shoved the turn when the flush card didnt hit?
- If I put the limper all in on the flop or turn should he call?

All help/suggestions appreciated.
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 06:43:23 PM »

To be honest this is always going to be a tricky situation once you make the blinds up.


You thought the hand through very well pre-flop so much cudos for that. Once the flop comes down you make a mistake in my opinion. By betting 1k it is indeed all in or fold time for the BB BUT if he moves all-in it will be an underraise.

You could have checked the flop if you had any incling that the BB does what he should do and that is push..if you didn't think he'd auto-push you could have raised 600...making every all-in move from the BB a normal raise which you could reraise incase the late position limper decides to call an all-in. We both know the standard of player you are up against though (There are only 5 or 6 decent players at that game) and it is unlikely that he'll fold to any push after he's called for 1500 (even though he only has 3500 behind and could just have 2 overcards) not because he's pot commited but simply because he can never fold a hand and doesn't like that play you made.

everything else...well once that King comes down you can bluff at it but I wouldn't at that stage.
I think you played it well but the only thing that you could have done differently was the flop bet..and even that wasn't a massive mistake.
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2007, 10:38:08 PM »

this is why you never play nothing hands out of the SB during a freezeout.
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2007, 11:27:54 PM »

this is why you never play nothing hands out of the SB during a freezeout.
I would say that is compounded by a small stack who may force decisions from you, and a large stack who can do damage to you, both acting after you. You are in quite a nice chip position for that game, with 9000 you could say you have a cushion to make a move in the right spot. Things go wrong or you have to bail, you're down to 5K or 6K, approaching a danger zone.
Impossible to know where you are even when the 9 hits. Upside is that if you do hit miracle trips or 2 pair, you're going to get paid off in that game.
Tough one. Especially there, I've seen raises called with 72, wtf.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 11:39:38 PM by TightPaulFolds » Logged
Bazzaboy
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2007, 11:54:25 PM »

Very solid players don't limp with 8 high in late position when BB has no chips and they themselves have only 8BBs
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Ironside
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2007, 12:16:25 AM »

if i had played this hand very doubtfull i would of made it 900 on the flop this would mean that the 600 reraise would of opened the pot i would of also made a point of asking for a chip count of the bb so that the limper would know that i am looking to isolate with a reraise if he calls
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2007, 03:16:18 AM »

IMO the turn bet is critical from your point of view. By mapping the betting you have to think ur ahead, ESPECIALLY if the guy is a solid player. If limper has a big made hand he bets big on the flop to stop drawing hands connecting. The king will sometimes help him but most of the time wont. Im making a big bet on the turn.
Also you should have sized up shorties stack so he doesnt underraise you, you know he's willing to commit and you can put enough pressure on the limper here to get him to fold a lot of hands.
I like Ironside's comments, but its dangerous to give your opponent that information by asking for a chip count, just be observant.

GL in future
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2007, 12:12:23 PM »

You should only complete in the SB if you play the streets well, and on this hand you completely mangled them.

Don't bet the flop in this situation, you take away the ability for your opponents to bluff at the pot, a check raise is so much better.

Once you have miss-clicked on the flop and get a very safe card on the turn it's an easy push, especially given the pot size.
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Ironside
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 01:26:23 AM »

IMO the turn bet is critical from your point of view. By mapping the betting you have to think ur ahead, ESPECIALLY if the guy is a solid player. If limper has a big made hand he bets big on the flop to stop drawing hands connecting. The king will sometimes help him but most of the time wont. Im making a big bet on the turn.
Also you should have sized up shorties stack so he doesnt underraise you, you know he's willing to commit and you can put enough pressure on the limper here to get him to fold a lot of hands.
I like Ironside's comments, but its dangerous to give your opponent that information by asking for a chip count, just be observant.

GL in future

i play a strange game often giving away free info but normally for a reason when playing my mouth is normally always engaged giving info i want to give and trying to gain info others dont want to give
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2007, 04:08:53 AM »

IMO the turn bet is critical from your point of view. By mapping the betting you have to think ur ahead, ESPECIALLY if the guy is a solid player. If limper has a big made hand he bets big on the flop to stop drawing hands connecting. The king will sometimes help him but most of the time wont. Im making a big bet on the turn.
Also you should have sized up shorties stack so he doesnt underraise you, you know he's willing to commit and you can put enough pressure on the limper here to get him to fold a lot of hands.
I like Ironside's comments, but its dangerous to give your opponent that information by asking for a chip count, just be observant.

GL in future

i play a strange game often giving away free info but normally for a reason when playing my mouth is normally always engaged giving info i want to give and trying to gain info others dont want to give

Wasnt a knock, i play like that too and if it suits your style being a talker is fun 2.
Trouble is, if he is a quiet type player, that is just the kind of Q that players sometimes give that makes me think................ok he has told me he has a 9, ill take it off him when a card bigger than a 9 comes.

But ur right, in this instance where its a dry pot ur line is on the money. 
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