Hand Advice

[Phil]

Ok, still kicking myself over this hand from a home game last night, that i think I played right but ended up losing a big pot on.

4 players left of a STT and i'm sat with a marginal chip leader over 2 players with one short stack (stacks something like 8.5k,7k,7k,2.5k)

I'm sat on BB and look at a suited K4. Blinds are 100/200 and small blind minimum raises to 400 (very loose passive player), see the guy next to me picking up his chips to call I decide to call for value for 200.

Flop comes Ah

SB bets 600. I then reraise to 1800 which is all in to him. Guy to my left thinks for a long long time before eventually folding and the raiser calls with As ..... ends up drawing a 6 to make his two pair and double through. The guy who folded passed a suited K and would have gone on to make the nuts heart flush.

I feel i played it right and probably should have had two passes from my raise. K4 came good it seemed to me on the flop so I played to win the pot there knowing i was unlikely to improve my hand, unlike others.

So was it right?

[tikay]

I think you WERE right, but "right" does not always mean you win the pot. You can't legislate for what others do, & now & then someone makes a bad call & wins. Just think of the value you are getting all the times he does NOT hit his miracle out.

[AdamM]

...and you want a call from a bare ace dont you?. you want all the chips and your a mile ahead. You've taken the flush draw out of the equation.

When I started reading it when you said minimum raise from a very loose passive player I thought AK for him to bet that flop so could have been worse.

[snoopy1239]

I would have done the same. Call for value, reraise do get rid of the draws. You just got unlucky with the outdraw. He could have easily folded his pair too.

By the way, what exactly is a 'loose passive player'?

[Bongo]

A player who plays lots of hands (loose) and who tends to call instead of raising or betting (passive). A calling station?

[snoopy1239]

Ah, cheers Bongo.

Many beginners play that way.

[Bongo]

Indeed, as a friend of mine always used to say "You never know what's coming on the flop" (so you shouldn't raise preflop and should play most cards). He came with me to Notts Gala once, got dealt KK preflop and didn't raise as per his motto. The flop came Ace high and he went all in, I never quite got that bit... 

[tikay]

Obvious really Bongo - wait until you are behind, THEN bet out......

[Phil]

So the call in the first place for value was correct?

In hindsight I feel like I may have got myself into trouble with something like K4 (could have quite easily ran into A4, or like Adam mentioned an AK that'd been slow played) when i could have just passed with my chip lead and let the other player knock the A6 guy out with his flush... but thats hindsight I guess!

[AdamM]

I think if you're read on your players is right (and from what you've told me in the past you seem to know them pretty well) you're entitled to limp with any two cards as chip leader. You've hit the flop pretty hard with your K,4 so you're right to play it after that. if the 2.5k has a better two pair so be it. you want the 7k stack out of the hand.

Incidently I think you're wrong about 'should have got two passes' If It were me and you here and I had the A6 I wouldn't be putting you on a big Ace. I'm pretty sure you would have re-raised pre-flop with A10+. I would have put a bit more in on the flop expecting to make you put A9 or less down me only to figure out if you have a big king or A4 (neither of which would be right). that said I'd have raised more than minimum pre-flop so you wouldn't be in with K4. Is it too late for me to get in yuor home game, my nottingham thing may be moving to tuesdays.