How do you play against viking nutters ?

[Muahahahaha]

Right.

Help needed here (Please.  If you've got a few moments to waste. Ta ).  I got myself into a position where I didn't know where the blimmin heck I was.  Up until the break I was sitting comfortable in the top 20 ( or so ) & people were giving and getting respect.

After the break I ended up on a table with loads of viking nutters who could hardly let a hand pass without playing it.   I'd not played a hand for a while.

Given the ways these guys play should I have just pushed preflop & either taken the blinds or relied on luck, or maybe pushed post flop, with the same attitude.

As it happens given the lack of thought they both put in poat flop, I assumed that if I was lucky I was up against an overpair & a flush draw, which was why I bet into the A on the turn.

But to be honest, I bet, they auto called, I bet they auto called.  No delays for thinking.  I honestly didn't have an acurate idea what I was up against.

Given my limited brain space, what should I have been thinking ?


PokerStars Game #8747707272: Tournament #44517596, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2007/03/05 - 07:20:31 (ET)
Table '44517596 13' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: cobrita85 (4585 in chips)
Seat 2: 1712 (4300 in chips)
Seat 3: MadmattAA (6395 in chips)
Seat 4: Muahahahaha (4110 in chips)
Seat 5: djerberg-dk (4250 in chips)
Seat 6: minnesotawon (4990 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrs.G04 (2595 in chips)
Seat 8: oldmill1948 (3085 in chips)
Seat 9: Sateliitti (2755 in chips)
Sateliitti: posts small blind 75
cobrita85: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Muahahahaha [ ]
1712: folds
MadmattAA: calls 150
Muahahahaha: raises 350 to 500
djerberg-dk: folds
minnesotawon: folds
Mrs.G04: calls 500
oldmill1948: folds
Sateliitti: folds
cobrita85: calls 350
MadmattAA: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
cobrita85: checks
Muahahahaha: bets 1000
Mrs.G04: calls 1000
cobrita85: calls 1000
*** TURN *** [ ] []
cobrita85: checks
Muahahahaha: bets 1200
Mrs.G04: calls 1095 and is all-in
cobrita85: calls 1200
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
cobrita85: checks
Muahahahaha: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
cobrita85: shows [  ] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
Muahahahaha: mucks hand
cobrita85 collected 210 from side pot
Mrs.G04: mucks hand
cobrita85 collected 8010 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8220 Main pot 8010. Side pot 210. | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: cobrita85 (big blind) showed [  ] and won (8220) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 2: 1712 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: MadmattAA folded before Flop
Seat 4: Muahahahaha mucked [ ]
Seat 5: djerberg-dk folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: minnesotawon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Mrs.G04 mucked [ ]
Seat 8: oldmill1948 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Sateliitti (small blind) folded before Flop

[boldie]

ok.

Against nutter Vikings you can raise more pre-flop one of them is bound to call anyways.

Once the flop comes down like this you can move in (though in this case the guy with the FD is bound to call you).
Yuo are lucky enough that the flop comes down low..don't feck about with 1k bets into a 1500 pot against nutters. Ship it in. Any turn card is bound to scare you.

Don't get what the guy with pocket was thinking on the turn but the guy with the nut flush draw was never going to go anywhere.

[Muahahahaha]

So as a rule of thumb.

When I'm confidant i'm in front, against loose vikings,  - push.

It's only going to confuse me further into the hand.

Because I used to not like playing JJ in a sng, I'd as often as not push preflop & hope.  But as I'm trying to get better I hear people like James Browning ( PNL pro ) say that I need to 'ask questions' with my bets & listen to the answers.  Well I just didn't understand a blimmin word these guys were saying.

[Moskvich]

Problem is with a hand like that, you can ask your question and get an answer of sorts on the flop, but the turn's going to change everything pretty much no matter what it is. There's very few turn cards I'd want to see there, so I can't see there's much you can do but shove it and hope you stay ahead.

[tantrum]

But to be honest, I bet, they auto called, I bet they auto called.  No delays for thinking.  I honestly didn't have an acurate idea what I was up against.

If you don't have a clue what they have - with this flop - one is most likely on the draw- you either slow down or ship it on the flop.  The Ax s would call you anyway so you can't do much here.

[AlexMartin]

Personally v Viking nutters i find a studded steel helmet does the job.

[johnbhoy76]

Right.

Help needed here (Please.  If you've got a few moments to waste. Ta ).  I got myself into a position where I didn't know where the blimmin heck I was.  Up until the break I was sitting comfortable in the top 20 ( or so ) & people were giving and getting respect.

After the break I ended up on a table with loads of viking nutters who could hardly let a hand pass without playing it.   I'd not played a hand for a while.

Given the ways these guys play should I have just pushed preflop & either taken the blinds or relied on luck, or maybe pushed post flop, with the same attitude.

As it happens given the lack of thought they both put in poat flop, I assumed that if I was lucky I was up against an overpair & a flush draw, which was why I bet into the A on the turn.

But to be honest, I bet, they auto called, I bet they auto called.  No delays for thinking.  I honestly didn't have an acurate idea what I was up against.

Given my limited brain space, what should I have been thinking ?


PokerStars Game #8747707272: Tournament #44517596, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2007/03/05 - 07:20:31 (ET)
Table '44517596 13' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: cobrita85 (4585 in chips)
Seat 2: 1712 (4300 in chips)
Seat 3: MadmattAA (6395 in chips)
Seat 4: Muahahahaha (4110 in chips)
Seat 5: djerberg-dk (4250 in chips)
Seat 6: minnesotawon (4990 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrs.G04 (2595 in chips)
Seat 8: oldmill1948 (3085 in chips)
Seat 9: Sateliitti (2755 in chips)
Sateliitti: posts small blind 75
cobrita85: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Muahahahaha [ ]
1712: folds
MadmattAA: calls 150
Muahahahaha: raises 350 to 500
djerberg-dk: folds
minnesotawon: folds
Mrs.G04: calls 500
oldmill1948: folds
Sateliitti: folds
cobrita85: calls 350
MadmattAA: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
cobrita85: checks
Muahahahaha: bets 1000
Mrs.G04: calls 1000
cobrita85: calls 1000
*** TURN *** [ ] []
cobrita85: checks
Muahahahaha: bets 1200
Mrs.G04: calls 1095 and is all-in
cobrita85: calls 1200

I think your play is correct pre flop and on the flop.

I think you need to ask why they have both called your bet on the flop.

for me there are 3 possibilities

1) he has a seven
2) he has an ACE and does not want to let go of it
3) he has a flush/straight draw

well there's also option four.... They are both bonkers!! However that is more likely when it is only one guy you are up against. when you have two callers it is less likely they are both morons with nothing.

It all comes down to being out of position, you just don't know. If you check when the ace comes you have shown weakness and now he can represent an ace wether he has one or not if you bet into him you look like a plonker when he has hit the ace because it was so obvious.

[thetank]

Option five, they are pining for the fjords.

[MANTIS01]

Right Then

The big mistake here is the pre-flop bet

You say that these Viking Nutters..."could hardly let a hand pass without playing it"

You then proceed to bet an amount that serves as a nice pot builder for these very same nutters. The raise of 350 is perfectly fine for a tight table, but not here. By only betting a further 350 into this table you absolutely WILL get a series of callers on drawing hands (such as a suited A or connectors like 8-9 )

The flop comes a drawers paradise....flush and straight drawers a plenty

I do not think pushing or over-betting the flop here is the right advice. Why? Because you played small-ball pre-flop. To start wanging chips around now is not in context with how you are playing the hand and the flop is far from ideal. You will probably get called and you will probably loose the hand by the river. If you aren't already behind now.

My advice. You probably have the best hand pre-flop. The table is loose. Crank it up pre-flop and ask the Scandies a proper question rather than a no-brainer...so bet about 800 and boss the table with the JJs (Rule Britannia and all that). If you get a caller you then have every right to push on that flop. It's now your pot. Big question pre-flop....big question post flop. Raising more probably gets the suited A out of the pot but the 9-9 hangs around....good. You push on the flop the 9's may well call and you win the pot rather than loose it.

After putting in a 350 raise pre-flop and getting more than one caller (with this flop) I would want to keep the pot small-ball with a small stopper bet and hope a draw card doesn't appear on the turn. A Jack or 7 would be nice as well. People may say that this is weak but hey you are not playing this hand aggressively. A 350 raise is not aggressive so why go Kamikaze on the flop.

I have A-7 suited...I call.....goodbye.

The A on the turn slows me down. And so it should. I put people on suited A's pre-flop. Pot building the turn here with another 1200 is not good. But you feel you have to bet again because you committed too much on the flop to stop now. Why not check the turn a get the free river card you have earnt with your betting. Fingers crossed you fill up. The suited A will probably want the freebie as well. You may even win a showdown with JJand of course the J of H on the river is ok as well.

If there is action-a-plenty on the river fold and stay in the tourney.

Another good point is that raising more pre-flop encourages loose players to want to push with hands like 9-9 and take it down due to the extra chippage in the pot. This is good for you because it chases away the rags and gets you heads up with the best of it.

It is never a good idea to play a hand one way and then completely change the context of the hand mid-flight.

I saw someone flat call last night at the final table with -Kc to try and flop a monster....the flop came A-4-8 and he did all his chips to the big blind's 4-8. He played the hand with one expectation but then played the hand like he was the pre-flop raiser instead. No! Small-ball pre-flop....small-ball post-flop is the way to go or big-ball,big-ball whatever you fancy.

Anyway Good Luck man

[boldie]

indeed!!!!..excellent posts showing a good train of thought

[marcro]

Right Then

The big mistake here is the pre-flop bet

You say that these Viking Nutters..."could hardly let a hand pass without playing it"

You then proceed to bet an amount that serves as a nice pot builder for these very same nutters. The raise of 350 is perfectly fine for a tight table, but not here. By only betting a further 350 into this table you absolutely WILL get a series of callers on drawing hands (such as a suited A or connectors like 8-9 )

The flop comes a drawers paradise....flush and straight drawers a plenty

I do not think pushing or over-betting the flop here is the right advice. Why? Because you played small-ball pre-flop. To start wanging chips around now is not in context with how you are playing the hand and the flop is far from ideal. You will probably get called and you will probably loose the hand by the river. If you aren't already behind now.

My advice. You probably have the best hand pre-flop. The table is loose. Crank it up pre-flop and ask the Scandies a proper question rather than a no-brainer...so bet about 800 and boss the table with the JJs (Rule Britannia and all that). If you get a caller you then have every right to push on that flop. It's now your pot. Big question pre-flop....big question post flop. Raising more probably gets the suited A out of the pot but the 9-9 hangs around....good. You push on the flop the 9's may well call and you win the pot rather than loose it.

After putting in a 350 raise pre-flop and getting more than one caller (with this flop) I would want to keep the pot small-ball with a small stopper bet and hope a draw card doesn't appear on the turn. A Jack or 7 would be nice as well. People may say that this is weak but hey you are not playing this hand aggressively. A 350 raise is not aggressive so why go Kamikaze on the flop.

I have A-7 suited...I call.....goodbye.

The A on the turn slows me down. And so it should. I put people on suited A's pre-flop. Pot building the turn here with another 1200 is not good. But you feel you have to bet again because you committed too much on the flop to stop now. Why not check the turn a get the free river card you have earnt with your betting. Fingers crossed you fill up. The suited A will probably want the freebie as well. You may even win a showdown with JJand of course the J of H on the river is ok as well.

If there is action-a-plenty on the river fold and stay in the tourney.

Another good point is that raising more pre-flop encourages loose players to want to push with hands like 9-9 and take it down due to the extra chippage in the pot. This is good for you because it chases away the rags and gets you heads up with the best of it.

It is never a good idea to play a hand one way and then completely change the context of the hand mid-flight.

I saw someone flat call last night at the final table with -Kc to try and flop a monster....the flop came A-4-8 and he did all his chips to the big blind's 4-8. He played the hand with one expectation but then played the hand like he was the pre-flop raiser instead. No! Small-ball pre-flop....small-ball post-flop is the way to go or big-ball,big-ball whatever you fancy.

Anyway Good Luck man

Mantis01 keep posting on this forum!!!! I'm now looking at PHA all the time (I didn't use to) just to see your posts! Very inciteful and a great way of learning! Keep up the good work!

Yep - who is this masked man?  Nice post Mantis.