Which would you prefer?

[Canuck]

OK

I often think about poker and sometimes not in the most relative of terms.

Suppose you are in a heads up cash game and your foe has moved all in on the first hand. You have 77. As you are thinking, your opponent says "I will let you do one of the following before you call or fold...see my hole cards OR see the flop, turn, and river, after which you can then call or fold."

What would you prefer? His cards, or the board?

PS this never happened, I am just curious.....and bored

[Newmanseye]

The flop turn and river, every time.

I would watch for his reaction ( if any ) and decide from there, also if i him my set then its and insta call!!

[kinboshi]

Board. 

You're a coin-flip at best.  See the board then decide when you see if you've hit your set or a random str8. 

[Bongo]

his cards, you can then play perfect poker.

[Ironside]

his cards, you can then play perfect poker.

there is no poker to play its call or in or fold preflop

best to see the board

[AndrewT]

With 77, you would be looking to see if you had a set by the river. This will happen 19% of the time. Obviously if you do it's instacall. However, 81% of the time you'll miss and you will have no idea of where you stand in the hand. There will almost certainly be at least one overcard which can beat you (or you may have been crushed by an overpair pre-flop).

By seeing his cards, you'll know whether you are 80% (underpair), 70% (one overcard) 20% (overpair) or roughly 50% (bigger overcards) and can then make the mathematically correct play pre-flop.

For me, against a single opponent, it's the cards I want to see. Against more than one opponent it's the board, as the importance of knowing whether you'll hit your set becomes more important.

[Bongo]

his cards, you can then play perfect poker.

there is no poker to play its call or in or fold preflop

best to see the board

Why?

If you see his cards you know your exact chances of winning, if they are good enough then you call, else you fold.

Seeing the board you can still make a mistake which would be -EV.

[RichEO]

With 77, you would be looking to see if you had a set by the river. This will happen 19% of the time. Obviously if you do it's instacall. However, 81% of the time you'll miss and you will have no idea of where you stand in the hand. There will almost certainly be at least one overcard which can beat you (or you may have been crushed by an overpair pre-flop).

By seeing his cards, you'll know whether you are 80% (underpair), 70% (one overcard) 20% (overpair) or roughly 50% (bigger overcards) and can then make the mathematically correct play pre-flop.

For me, against a single opponent, it's the cards I want to see. Against more than one opponent it's the board, as the importance of knowing whether you'll hit your set becomes more important.

1. whether you are 80% (underpair)
2. 70% (one overcard)
3. 20% (overpair)
4. roughly 50% (bigger overcards)

He has moved all in pre flop, therefore I think it skews the chances of him having the above hands to something like this:

1. 2%
2. 2%
3. 48%
4. 48%

Which means most of the time seeing his cards are just going to tell what is most likely, your behind with 77 or he has AK!

See the board, and if it comes 7 A K Q 10, fold anyway 

[RichEO]

his cards, you can then play perfect poker.

there is no poker to play its call or in or fold preflop

best to see the board

Why?

If you see his cards you know your exact chances of winning, if they are good enough then you call, else you fold.

Seeing the board you can still make a mistake which would be -EV.

I don't think it matters that you can still make a mistake, I see your point, if he has overs (except for 10Js and QJs in which he is a favourite!) and you have 77, if you bankroll is big enough to take the swings then you call (as it's a cash game) and it's +EV. But, you can overall, make a better decision once you have seen the board, due to all the luck that can happen.

If it's a reasonable stake and you think he is playing sensibly then his cards are norrowed down to an overpair or overcards. In which you are only losing out 1-9% when he has overcards (when you miss your set you fold, and you fail to win this %), which isn't a great crime against EV. I think you will more than make up for this by calling when you have a set only as (roughly now..) 20% of time you have a set, and 16% of the time you have a set he will have a set too (if he has an overpair, which IMO is most likely). Which leaves you at about 17% overall to hit a set and win with it. Just 3% of the time you hit a set he will hit a higher one too.

So I think it's much less risk and greater reward seeing the board and hoping for your set.

[RichEO]

his cards, you can then play perfect poker.

You have 2 decisions to make, making the wrong 1st decision so you can make the 2nd one 100% correctly doens't mean it's the correct decision overall.

Making the 1st decision correctly means you can make a good decision (but not perfect), and overall a better decision.


I've taken over this thread. Sorry

[Smart Money]

If he has gone all in "in the dark" then it would be better to see his cards.

If he has gone all in as a result of having first looked at his cards then it would be better to see the board.

[jakally]

If he has gone all in "in the dark" then it would be better to see his cards.

If he has gone all in as a result of having first looked at his cards then it would be better to see the board.

What he said.
If you have the option to fold then cards every time.