The increased popularity of running antes

[TightEnd]

following on from the GUKPT this weeks's Luton festival has seen running antes introduced to their events, for the first time I believe and I think it's a welcome move.

off the top of my head it went 300-600 with 25, 400-800 with 25, 600-1200 with 50 and so on


Now I am not very experienced (not live anyway) with running antes so perhaps you could help me with the following:


at a full 9 or 10 handed table you are about to raise into an unopened pot. What would convention/theory suggest that you should do in terms of adjusting  the size of your raise for the increased pot size pre-flop? why might the experienced players I saw last night be reducing their raise sizes after the introduction of antes  ie blinds 300-600, button makes it 1500 to play (regularly), from a standard 3-3.5x at prior levels?

at what point after the introduction of antes would their presence as a sweetener into pots cause you to significantly increase the frequency of your steal attempts, or is it business as usual?

what else should I be aware of strategically and tactically in the role of running antes in the late stages of these comps?

[Royal Flush]

Keep your raise the same against UK oppo's (they won't be adjusting for about 7-10 years) just raise more frequently. Also thats an odd ante structure (low ante/blind)

[lazaroonie]

means that they have to keep all the 25 chips out on the table for ages. that would be popular....

[Djinn]

I am in favour of running antes, until people stop doing exactly what you report - I can't imagine why anyone would reduce their raise size as the antes were introduced, even if they considered upping it unnecessary, which I'm not sure about.  Was this working?  Were the blinds as content to let it go to button raising 2.5x every go at this point?  If so, then fair enough to the button, he had the easiest job in the world, and probably some impressive towers of 25s.

As for what point after the introduction of antes should you be nicking them - about a millisecond, if possible.  I don't know a lot though, just played in the States some where people react to antes kicking in more noticeably, because they've been there before.  I just copied the other guys at the table.  It seemed to work OK.

[ariston]

One of the best online UK players doesn't even class the tourney as starting until the running antes kick in. He even has a few rocks who regularly play the first x levels for him and he takes over when the running antes  start (he pays them a % of whatever he wins). His raise frequency goes up to maybe 2 or 3 a round from all positions and his raise size is normally as you say 2.5 times the bb. The way he builds a stack quickly is very impressive and there is no reason it shouldn't work live (apart from the fact he's crap live sorry mate).

[matt674]

So are we having running antes in the blind structure at BB4?

[Dewi_cool]

Still in discussion, tbh we still have not decided if were having chips at all, at the moment it's between bananas and fish

[matt674]

Still in discussion, tbh we still have not decided if were having chips at all, at the moment it's between bananas and fish

For you squire its irrelevant - you never hold them long enough to find out what they are!!

and if it's bananas i'm going to have eaten all mine before the first hand is dealt!!

Fish it is...........

[Dewi_cool]

Can't argue with that lol

[TightEnd]

I am in favour of running antes, until people stop doing exactly what you report - I can't imagine why anyone would reduce their raise size as the antes were introduced, even if they considered upping it unnecessary, which I'm not sure about.  Was this working?  Were the blinds as content to let it go to button raising 2.5x every go at this point? 

no it wasn't working pre-flop...the blind was priced in to call usually. I found it strange

[AndrewT]

I am in favour of running antes, until people stop doing exactly what you report - I can't imagine why anyone would reduce their raise size as the antes were introduced, even if they considered upping it unnecessary, which I'm not sure about.  Was this working?  Were the blinds as content to let it go to button raising 2.5x every go at this point? 

no it wasn't working pre-flop...the blind was priced in to call usually. I found it strange

Unless they deliberately wanted to make it cheap so the BB would be inclined to play a pot out of position - a pot which, due to the small pre-flop raise, may not be big enough for the BB to really want to fight over out of position once the flop comes down. If the experienced player fancied themselves as being able to out play the BB post-flop, then this may consider this to be a better strategy than raising bigger pre-flop.

[ariston]

nail on head sir

[Djinn]

I am in favour of running antes, until people stop doing exactly what you report - I can't imagine why anyone would reduce their raise size as the antes were introduced, even if they considered upping it unnecessary, which I'm not sure about.  Was this working?  Were the blinds as content to let it go to button raising 2.5x every go at this point? 

no it wasn't working pre-flop...the blind was priced in to call usually. I found it strange

Unless they deliberately wanted to make it cheap so the BB would be inclined to play a pot out of position - a pot which, due to the small pre-flop raise, may not be big enough for the BB to really want to fight over out of position once the flop comes down. If the experienced player fancied themselves as being able to out play the BB post-flop, then this may consider this to be a better strategy than raising bigger pre-flop.

Let me get this straight - is what you're saying, "It's a good idea (with a wide range, in position) against a weak-passive calling station big blind who nevertheless realises their investment is not such as deserves a fight on a flop.  And it's a good idea if you're good enough to know where you are on the flop when you've priced the blind in on a very wide range of hands.  Otherwise, no."

Because if so, I agree.

[barhell]

I've been wooooooooooshed.

[Dry em]

I was asked by one of the magazines to write something about standard pre-flop raises...why it is people go for 3xbb (other than because thats what they see others doing) etc

Will try to include something about antes too