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Author Topic: Crazy call or great call?  (Read 3947 times)
AlexMartin
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2007, 11:37:35 PM »

OMG sorry to offend those of you that thought this was a good call but LOL.
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Jim-D
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2007, 11:43:17 PM »

OMG sorry to offend those of you that thought this was a good call but LOL.
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Newmanseye
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2007, 09:47:20 AM »

TBH I think Antonius  looks uncomfortable as he pushes all in, infact I think we was going to automaticaly check but decided to push "rather than risk it". I could be reading his body language wrong but i doubt it, He was already puching the chips to the dealer as to motion a check but he paused, then quick contemplation and a push, to say gimme your chips.

Now one of Doyles maxims is that he will call of all his money with a weak hand if he thinks he is ahead, Patrik should have known this, So removing the -EV play long term, which we all know long term its a bad play but given that situation I say its a good read on a player and a great call.

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« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2007, 11:17:38 AM »

TBH I think Antonius  looks uncomfortable as he pushes all in, infact I think we was going to automaticaly check but decided to push "rather than risk it". I could be reading his body language wrong but i doubt it, He was already puching the chips to the dealer as to motion a check but he paused, then quick contemplation and a push, to say gimme your chips.

Now one of Doyles maxims is that he will call of all his money with a weak hand if he thinks he is ahead, Patrik should have known this, So removing the -EV play long term, which we all know long term its a bad play but given that situation I say its a good read on a player and a great call.



Hang on so you agree -ev call, but then say its a great call. Ummm im confused. Its either one or the other, surely.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2007, 01:17:39 PM »

TBH I think Antonius  looks uncomfortable as he pushes all in, infact I think we was going to automaticaly check but decided to push "rather than risk it". I could be reading his body language wrong but i doubt it, He was already puching the chips to the dealer as to motion a check but he paused, then quick contemplation and a push, to say gimme your chips.

Now one of Doyles maxims is that he will call of all his money with a weak hand if he thinks he is ahead, Patrik should have known this, So removing the -EV play long term, which we all know long term its a bad play but given that situation I say its a good read on a player and a great call.

So you put him on holding exactly a deuce and want to call where you have to win in a showdown. Im saying no more on this subject, IT WAS THE MOST DONKEY PLAY IV EVER SEEN FROM DOYLE.


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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2007, 01:32:39 PM »

Ok I suppose I see your point, but surely any form of tell just widens his range and 3's plays bad against alot of ranges and doesn't affect ev that much the wider it gets. Also you factor this in the ranges to assess whether it -ev or not. Its oxymoron to say this call is -ev but its a great call.

Also how much this tell gives away is debatable, Patrik is a top player and probably give away alot of false tells as well.
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Newmanseye
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2007, 02:07:41 PM »

Ok I suppose I see your point, but surely any form of tell just widens his range and 3's plays bad against alot of ranges and doesn't affect ev that much the wider it gets. Also you factor this in the ranges to assess whether it -ev or not. Its oxymoron to say this call is -ev but its a great call.

Also how much this tell gives away is debatable, Patrik is a top player and probably give away alot of false tells as well.

The call is only -EV in the long term over X many hands played out time and time again, Doyle is known to gamble with a weak hand if he thinks he is coin flipping.  Like I said, if Doyle caught a tell or saw that Patrik was not comfy pushing then yes it was a good call for that one particular hand.

In most situations its a bad call but in that one situation it was the correct call, as for false tells, there were more than one tell in the way Patrik played, The pause, the sheepish allin, the holding of all motion as he waits, for the call / fold.

It may be an oxymoron to say its - EV and its a great call but from a situational stand point thats exactly what it is.

BTW i could be totally wrong and Doyle decided "Fkk IT " and just called cos he was fed up, but after watching Patriks body language I think Doyle picked up something.

It would be interesting if someone had ever interviewed him on this hand, just to see what he said.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2007, 02:40:39 PM »

How can you pick up opn something holding 33?

OMG is this a joke!!!
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2007, 03:11:53 PM »

How can you pick up opn something holding 33?

OMG is this a joke!!!

I believe Patrik had some oreo's with him and kept splashing the pot, while putting on some Russian accent. Obv
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« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2007, 03:15:24 PM »

 Cheesy
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« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2007, 04:58:39 PM »

I agree with everyones having opinions etc.

What alarms me Newmanseye is that you say Patrik looked uncomfortable when he put his chips in. Approx 0% of the worlds population can get a physical read from Patrik on the strength of his hand. It is also hard to read someone for a deuce in their hand no matter how bad their body control would be.

Horrible call, but an understandable one. I probably stick the lot in with because unless your lucky there aint gona be many situations you can get your chips in against PA better than 50/50 (Presuming that most of the time you would be racing here with )
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« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2007, 03:21:41 AM »

I agree with everyones having opinions etc.

What alarms me Newmanseye is that you say Patrik looked uncomfortable when he put his chips in. Approx 0% of the worlds population can get a physical read from Patrik on the strength of his hand. It is also hard to read someone for a deuce in their hand no matter how bad their body control would be.

Horrible call, but an understandable one. I probably stick the lot in with because unless your lucky there aint gona be many situations you can get your chips in against PA better than 50/50 (Presuming that most of the time you would be racing here with )

I never said he read him for a deuce, or that patrik was telegraphing a deuce, but in my opinion he looked less than confident when he pushed his chips in, from the moment Doyle makes up the bet till PA pushes he looks like he does not want a call.

I maintain that Doyle probably thought he was racing and was happy to do so as is one of his maxims.

Whats so ALARMING about that?



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« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2007, 03:24:33 AM »

shocking
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2007, 03:26:20 AM »

I agree with everyones having opinions etc.

What alarms me Newmanseye is that you say Patrik looked uncomfortable when he put his chips in. Approx 0% of the worlds population can get a physical read from Patrik on the strength of his hand. It is also hard to read someone for a deuce in their hand no matter how bad their body control would be.

Horrible call, but an understandable one. I probably stick the lot in with because unless your lucky there aint gona be many situations you can get your chips in against PA better than 50/50 (Presuming that most of the time you would be racing here with )

I never said he read him for a deuce, or that patrik was telegraphing a deuce, but in my opinion he looked less than confident when he pushed his chips in, from the moment Doyle makes up the bet till PA pushes he looks like he does not want a call.

I maintain that Doyle probably thought he was racing and was happy to do so as is one of his maxims.

Whats so ALARMING about that?





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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2007, 05:01:53 AM »

I agree with everyones having opinions etc.

What alarms me Newmanseye is that you say Patrik looked uncomfortable when he put his chips in. Approx 0% of the worlds population can get a physical read from Patrik on the strength of his hand. It is also hard to read someone for a deuce in their hand no matter how bad their body control would be.

Horrible call, but an understandable one. I probably stick the lot in with because unless your lucky there aint gona be many situations you can get your chips in against PA better than 50/50 (Presuming that most of the time you would be racing here with )

I never said he read him for a deuce, or that patrik was telegraphing a deuce, but in my opinion he looked less than confident when he pushed his chips in, from the moment Doyle makes up the bet till PA pushes he looks like he does not want a call.

I maintain that Doyle probably thought he was racing and was happy to do so as is one of his maxims.

Whats so ALARMING about that?





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