Poker as a career- advice needed

[Snatiramas]

It is such a big difference. On the one hand you play now because you want to. On the other you play because you have to. Sounds to me that you do not like your job. Change that first maybe. It is great to have poker as an extra income and a hobby. As a living?

[AndrewT]

Actually, having had a search, Chris Ferguson's plan does include MTTs. It's 5% for cash game or STT and only 2% for an MTT.

But the principle is the same - MTTs are not something to be treated lightly - 10% buy-ins will destroy you.

[Spencer]

ok guys appreciating ur comments, as far as batmans (sorry couldnt remember ure screen name) comments goes , i havent thought of that aspect yet that was whole point of me asking for advice, i probably wouldnt even had started this thread if i had money commitments, the fact that i have no money going out each month is what made me think of this, ur comments are helping so keep em coming!

[kinboshi]

What level buy-in are you playing at the moment?

[matt674]

Actually, having had a search, Chris Ferguson's plan does include MTTs. It's 5% for cash game or STT and only 2% for an MTT.

But the principle is the same - MTTs are not something to be treated lightly - 10% buy-ins will destroy you.

myself and BigArmo agreed with this back in 2005 and said that we would not play the $50 rebuys and $100 freezeouts on a regular basis with a bankroll less than $5k and i wouldnt play $100 rebuys without bankroll of $15k.

Now in 2007 that the fields on Pokerstars are super silly in size i recommend that on their site you will need a bankroll double to compensate for any bad luck variances that you suffer.

[AndrewT]

If you're still living at home with your parents then obviously there will always be food on the table and a roof over your head even if you go broke. And it is very easy to get into a rut of working a crap job for little money, which leaves you too tired/too little time to properly look for a better job. If you can support yourself playing poker whilst you look for a better job, then it'll be better than flipping burgers.

Maybe you'll get lucky - who knows? Remember though, that with a job, there's always a paycheque at the end of the month. With poker, you can be stuck in front of your computer for hours every day, and yet still have lost money by the end. That will be soul-destroying if you're not prepared for it and may make you stop liking playing poker, which would be a real shame.

[Spencer]

dont get me wrong guys i like my job its why i went to college and uni, im thinking for the future really coz i really cant see myself doing a 9-5 all my life, so the more info i get now early on means the better chance and the more prepared i will be when i finally do take that step, for now though i think i'll jus keep plugging away learning more reading more analysing my own game, and give a few thoughts to what andrewt said earlier, cheers guys

[Nakor]

Actually, having had a search, Chris Ferguson's plan does include MTTs. It's 5% for cash game or STT and only 2% for an MTT.

But the principle is the same - MTTs are not something to be treated lightly - 10% buy-ins will destroy you.

myself and BigArmo agreed with this back in 2005 and said that we would not play the $50 rebuys and $100 freezeouts on a regular basis with a bankroll less than $5k and i wouldnt play $100 rebuys without bankroll of $15k.

Now in 2007 that the fields on Pokerstars are super silly in size i recommend that on their site you will need a bankroll double to compensate for any bad luck variances that you suffer.

Matt have you any idea how much the fields in say the 50 F/O and rebuys up to the 100's have increased since 2005 on Stars ?
Your comments about potential increased Bankroll size due to increased entrants interests me.  Just interested in what percentage increase you feel has justified you reassessing your BR management and levels of entry.

PS is your super hero Bat - Trick Man ?

[Sark79]

I was wondering if those who play poker for 10 hours everyday enjoy poker or is it now a just a job?      I read a blog recently and the person writing it made the comment that they play cash games all day and at the weekend get to play the big Sunday MTT's.  From a readers viewpoint, it almost looked like the fun part of the week was actually playing the MTT and the rest of their 'working' week was a long grind.   

I once thought it looked like fun to be a full time poker player, but after reading comments both on Blonde and from other forums written by players who I respect,  it really does seem like a tough way to earn money.  Apart from not having the necessary talent to be a pro,  I would only ever do it if I won the lotto or a rich Uncle left me a few million.  I read comments on forums and speak to people who are 'professional poker players' and I am always amazed that they can only play NL.  I always thought being a true poker player,  you had to be able to play all games including cash games, STT and be able to hold your own in a tournament.  If I ever decided to play poker for a living, I would need to know in mind that I had a strong understanding of all the different variants and also a substantial bankroll . You don't see a golfer turning pro who can only perform on the putting green, they have the whole package.  In the past, only players turned pro who could play every game well. 

Obviously the same names come up time after time on pokerstars winning the big events, people such as Annette15 .  She must earn a nice living, but it is all at NL.  If you look at other players such as Matt from Blonde, he has good results in MTT at a variety of different variants ( sorry to use you as an example mate,  I just know you play games other than NL as well  ) .  Surely this is better than being a specialist at one game.  Isn't this a better platform to launch a target to being a fulltime player than if a player can only play NL?     Like I said before, I would prefer to have a matt type knowledge of various games than a Annette15 knowledge of one game.

[matt674]

Matt have you any idea how much the fields in say the 50 F/O and rebuys up to the 100's have increased since 2005 on Stars ?
Your comments about potential increased Bankroll size due to increased entrants interests me.  Just interested in what percentage increase you feel has justified you reassessing your BR management and levels of entry.

PS is your super hero Bat - Trick Man ?

Up until recently the 8pm $50 freezeout on pokerstars used to be a P/L tourney on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and a N/L event on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. The P/L tourney used to attract between 120-160 runners average with the N/L tourney attracting 300-350 runners. Therefore to cash you were looking to beat approx 100-140 runners for the P/L and 260-310 runners in the N/L

Now they have changed it so that it is a $50 freezeout N/L tourney every night up until recently it used to be guaranteed $25000 so it attracted about 800-900 runners - now it is a guaranteed $50000 tourney that attracts between 1200-1500 runners (the $50 on bank holiday monday attracted 1809 runners). The payout has changed slightly so they are paying top 15% rather than 10% back in 2005 so Mondays tournament paid 270 places - so in 2 years they are paying out the same number as they used to get runners virtually.

And because of the way the prizepool is dished out where they dont take the prize money off the top places but rather spread the lower prizes out further it means you have to finish higher up in the money now to make more profit than you did 2 years ago (percentage wise). On Monday 1st prize was $17700 but finishing between 27th and 45th (which is where i ended up) earned you just $271. So for an outlay of $55 now if i beat 1782 other competitors i make $216 profit - not very good value at all.

Yes if you make the final table you are looking at a 4 figure payout with top 2 being 5 figures - very nice if you make it that far but beating 1800 is a lot more difficult.

In 2005 you had to beat either 140 or 310 runners to cash on a regular basis - in 2007 you have to beat 1000-1600 runners to cash on a regular basis and your prize up until the final few tables is exactly the same then as it is now. Therefore to keep your bankroll ticking over on a regular basis proves more difficult. Thankfully they have introduced 180 runner sng's and tournaments where they cap the number of runners. Also I find that its only the guaranteed tourneys that attract a lot of runners, there is another $50 N/L freezeout on stars at 10pm (only 10% payout) with the same 3000 starting chips. There's no guarantee on it and that only attracts between 400-600 runners as opposed to 1200-1800 for the 8pm.

To be honest thanks to babymonkey i haven't really thought that much about bankroll management basically because i haven't had a bankroll. Now i'm working my way back up i am sticking to smaller tourneys with smaller fields (the occasional $30 freezeout or $20 x180 sng) with the occasional shot at a $50 or $100 tourney because the $5 and $10 freezeouts have between 1500-3000 runners and its impossible to build a bankroll playing these regularly. Fingers crossed the building continues well enough to contemplate going back to $50 rebuys and $100 freezeouts on a regular basis

My avatar is Robin briefly because everytime i go to post i find batman beat me too it!!

[matt674]

Obviously the same names come up time after time on pokerstars winning the big events, people such as Annette15 .  She must earn a nice living, but it is all at NL.  If you look at other players such as Matt from Blonde, he has good results in MTT at a variety of different variants ( sorry to use you as an example mate,  I just know you play games other than NL as well  ) .  Surely this is better than being a specialist at one game.  Isn't this a better platform to launch an target to being a fulltime player than if a player can only play NL?     Like I said before, I would prefer to have a matt type knowledge of various games than a Annette15 knowledge of one game.

Dont want to shoot down your theory really mate but $310k of the $350k winnings on Pokerstars has come from N/L holdem. I do have cashes at all other forms but the majority of my winnings has come from one game.

Unfortunately because thats the game where all the money is online this is the discipline most people concentrate on when trying to win decent money

[AndrewT]

I read comments on forums and speak to people who are 'professional poker players' and I am always amazed that they can only play NL.  I always thought being a true poker player,  you had to be able to play all games including cash games, STT and be able to hold your own in a tournament.  If I ever decided to play poker for a living, I would need to know in mind that I had a strong understanding of all the different variants and also a substantial bankroll . You don't see a golfer turning pro who can only perform on the putting green, they have the whole package.  In the past, only players turned pro who could play every game well. 

Obviously the same names come up time after time on pokerstars winning the big events, people such as Annette15 .  She must earn a nice living, but it is all at NL.  If you look at other players such as Matt from Blonde, he has good results in MTT at a variety of different variants ( sorry to use you as an example mate,  I just know you play games other than NL as well  ) .  Surely this is better than being a specialist at one game.  Isn't this a better platform to launch an target to being a fulltime player than if a player can only play NL?     Like I said before, I would prefer to have a matt type knowledge of various games than a Annette15 knowledge of one game.

The reason old-style live players developed skills at a range of games is because they had to. If the only game going is dealer's choice, then you have to know/be good at whatever is called to make a profit.

Now, on the internet, you can get away with only knowing NL Holdem, as there will always be a game of that going. Live, for big money, you really need to branch out, but for people just to make a living playing, you don't.

[Sark79]

Maybe,  but my point is you know other games.   

I am friends with a guy who plays on Prima full time and he freely admits he only knows NL HE .  We had a friendly game at another persons house recently and tried to mix up all the games after so many hands.  Out of all of us, he was the fish and he laughed about this after . We were only playing for £20 or so and at NL he was killing us, when it got to any of the other games he didn't even know the rules .   Isn't it better to turn pro when you know all the games? 

[matt674]

Maybe,  but my point is you know other games.   

I am friends with a guy who plays on Prima full time and he freely admits he only knows NL HE .  We had a friendly game at another persons house recently and tried to mix up all the games after so many hands.  Out of all of us, he was the fish and he laughed about this after . We were only playing for £20 or so and at NL he was killing us, when it got to any of the other games he didn't even know the rules .   Isn't it better to turn pro when you know all the games? 

This is why i like playing the occasional HORSE tourney on stars - its not because i'm a world expert on Razz or Stud "8" but i know i can hold my own better than most of the other competitors. I've even seen players sit out whole levels because they don't want to risk chips at one of the 5 disciplines!!

Like Andrew says (grrr) you don't need to know all the games nowadays to become a pro - on t'internet you can easily make a decent profit just playing N/L hold'em - and to a pro profit is all you are interested in.

[Sark79]

I am a multi discipline fish and I am equally bad at all forms of poker,  but I at least know how to play the other games  .