Big Brother 8

[AndrewT]

has to be zero tollerance on her choice of words.
she may not have meant it maliciously but she had to go.

So saying something without malice is punishable by being kicked out?

A touch harsh?

[AdamM]

I expect it'll just sound as daft and embarressing as if the silly posh white girl called her "homie"
It is harsh but fair. it has to be zero tollerance on language like that. I actually think the Shilpa poppudom thing was much more blown out of proportion. It was horrible bullying but that wasn't racist abuse. The racist stuff was muttered under the sheets by her fella.

10pm, lets have a look

[Rooky9]

I expect it'll just sound as daft and embarressing as if the silly posh white girl called her "homie"

Is this also racial?

If the 'celebrity' thing hadnt of happened then it probably wouldnt have been shown, but as it did it was probably right to take her out

[Claw75]

I expect it'll just sound as daft and embarressing as if the silly posh white girl called her "homie"

Is this also racial?

erm....no!  She probably wouldn't be too happy about being labelled as 'silly' or 'posh', but I doubt she'd mind being referred to as 'white' in the same way that a black person wouldn't mind being referred to as 'black'.

[AdamM]

I expect it'll just sound as daft and embarressing as if the silly posh white girl called her "homie"

Is this also racial?

You mean racist? not really. Silly posh white girl is a series of facts. I would only usually say silly posh girl but in this instance white is relevant which is why I Included it. there might be times describing Charlie, it would be relevant to include black but normally gobby nasty piece of work will do. the choice of word Emily dragged up from her subconscious, straight to her mouth is never going to be appropriate.

looked pretty clear cut to me. She may not have said it to hurt Charlie but that's not really the point.

Emily probably lives in a world where she and her white friends call each other that. I think she genuinely believes it's not offensive  >:?
Charlie lives in a world where she probably hears that sort of thing in the background but the norm is to have to shrug it off. She clearly was offended by it but was probably losing an ally if Emily went.

straight red no question

[Rooky9]

I expect it'll just sound as daft and embarressing as if the silly posh white girl called her "homie"

Is this also racial?

erm....no!  She probably wouldn't be too happy about being labelled as 'silly' or 'posh', but I doubt she'd mind being referred to as 'white' in the same way that a black person wouldn't mind being referred to as 'black'.

Are you sure? I remember when i was growing up it was pc to say coloured rather than black. Now coloured is taken as offensive to a lot of black people.

The statement i quoted separates somebody's background and ethincity and is meant to be derogatory and therefore has a racial element.

There is a different between racial and the traditional view of 'rascism'.

Just caught the start of BBLB and there's split between people from all cultures about whether what she said was offensive.

[Claw75]

Are you sure? I remember when i was growing up it was pc to say coloured rather than black. Now coloured is taken as offensive to a lot of black people.

I think use of the word 'coloured' was presented as the PC term to use (before PC became common parlance!), not by black people but probably by well meaning white people trying not to offend, but inadvertently potentially doing so.  I've certainly never met a black person that took offence to being described as black.

[The_nun]

I don't take offence to be called white either.

[AdamM]

Are you sure? I remember when i was growing up it was pc to say coloured rather than black. Now coloured is taken as offensive to a lot of black people.

I think use of the word 'coloured' was presented as the PC term to use (before PC became common parlance!), not by black people but probably by well meaning white people trying not to offend, but inadvertently potentially doing so.  I've certainly never met a black person that took offence to being described as black.

Claw, you seem to inadvertantly made that quote look like mine. would you mind awfuly adjusting it so the actual author is credited.

you have, thanks

[Claw75]

Are you sure? I remember when i was growing up it was pc to say coloured rather than black. Now coloured is taken as offensive to a lot of black people.

I think use of the word 'coloured' was presented as the PC term to use (before PC became common parlance!), not by black people but probably by well meaning white people trying not to offend, but inadvertently potentially doing so.  I've certainly never met a black person that took offence to being described as black.

Claw, you seem to inadvertantly made that quote look like mine. would you mind awfuly adjusting it so the actual author is credited.

you have, thanks

beat you to it!  apologies

[Rooky9]

There are also many black people who aren't offended by the word used, depending of course on context.

A racial (and yes I mean Racial not Racist Adam) term includes all things that separate race and characterics of race. Its irrelevant whether they are offensive.


Anyhow, Will be interesting to see how things develop from here. I pretty tired of there being so many girls in there (never thought i'd say that) but they waste so much time and energy bitching and being over dramatic! Can understand why they wouldnt have done it the other way round, with just blokes in, wouldnt have been great tele!!

[Claw75]

Anyhow, Will be interesting to see how things develop from here. I pretty tired of there being so many girls in there (never thought i'd say that) but they waste so much time and energy bitching and being over dramatic! Can understand why they wouldnt have done it the other way round, with just blokes in, wouldnt have been great tele!!

I think the trouble with this programme (and one of the reasons I no longer bother with it) is that every year they've got to come up with some new gimmick to keep it fresh.  As I said, I've not watched it yet - maybe would have been tempted to tune in by now if it wasn't all women!

[AdamM]

it's fine to describe people in terms of race where it's relevant. I understand what you're saying about racial / racist. I was going to say Black and white are racial descriptions, but of course they're not. they're skin colour descriptions. White South Africans and Black Englishmen etc. thats another conversation (and a deep one) fact is the word Emily chose IS racist.

I'm sure it's true there are some black people not offended by the term used. I'm sure they're far out weighed by those who are and say so, as well as those who are but don't make a fuss.

I will say though, I'm not looking forward to the tabloids stringing the girl up. She's made a mistake and hopefuly it'll make her rethink what words are acceptable and which aren't

[tantrum]

I don't take offence to be called white either.

No kidding

[MANTIS01]

To be fair I don't think they'd have slung her out for that but it's not quite the same thing either. a one on one personal insults is one thing but racially abusive language has hundreds of years of weight to it that make it a bigger issue I think. If Charlie had used the same language my guess is it would have resulted in her going too.

This attitude really bothers me.

I am not being critical about Adam's views here and indeed recognise them to be indicitive of mainstream opinion. But, for me, this thought process is in part responsible for the pc-obsessed world we now live in. I was born in 1973. I have absolutely no apologies to make for the historical sins of the British Empire. When I interact with different races I do so on an equal footing.

Let's say you are the boss of a company and are currently interviewing for a position in your business. You decide that a black applicant is the best qualified for the job but you deny him this opportunity because you prefer whites. This is racism and it is quite rightly a crime.

In the BB House Emily has gravitated towards Charley and they have become mates without predjudice and as equals. This is racial integration....Isn't this the ultimate goal of the pc brigade? Emily, I would imagine, has little knowledge of, or indeed interest in, the history of the Empire. She's living in the today....and quite rightly so! Her comment was clearly not because as a "white" she felt she was the superior human being!!! I mean will everyone just stop, take a deep breath, and take a look at what is happening to the world.

We think that if you say a WORD, a certain dreaded word, you should be immediately and severely punished.

How ridiculous.

The person who declares "...you are a stupid fat bitch..." with the malice and motivation to cause hurt is quite clearly guilty of a greater moral crime. Emily is ignorant to historic race issues and treats her new friend as her equal or perhaps even someone she wants to impress. And as such it is wholly irresponsible for the producers to sling accusations of racial abuse at this girl. It is what you think that matters.

This girl is living in modern day Britain. And in today's world she is freely mixing with lots of different races in her, no-doubt, multi-cultural community. Much older, historically-minded dinosaurs shoving hundreds of years of black oppression down an 18 year-olds throat with this gross over-reaction is surely not the best way to tackle genuine racial discrimination in this country.