apat structure

[turny]

although i never played the tournament this weekend i followed it on the excellent live update thread,was i the only one who felt it became very crapshooty from a long way out?

would love feed back from those who participated.

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

personally i dont think a 40 min clock offers this as the whole tournament took less than 16 hours to complete.

i may b wrong here as i have no experience of going deep in an apat tourni so your views please

have also posted this on the apat site to see the variance in responses

[tikay]

although i never played the tournament this weekend i followed it on the excellent live update thread,was i the only one who felt it became very crapshooty from a long way out?

would love feed back from those who participated.

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

personally i dont think a 40 min clock offers this as the whole tournament took less than 16 hours to complete.

i may b wrong here as i have no experience of going deep in an apat tourni so your views please

have also posted this on the apat site to see the variance in responses

The structure is designed specifically with our preferred time-window in mind. We aim to start at 2.30pm on Day One & finish around Midnight. Day Two is designed to start at 2.30pm & finish mid-to late evening. These goals have been met in every APAT Event.

Given our time window, the structure cannot be much better than it is. The average stack was between 18 & 25 BB's for much of the Final, though it was tighter at the beginning. The Final lasted, net of breaks, 5 hours, and as far as I know, the Members & players in general had no complaints about the structure.

As ever, we will keep it under review, but at this point in time, the Members seem to understand that it's the best it can be given the pre-condition of not finishing late on either Day One or Two. Whatever we do with the structure it will always be built around the early start & finishing times we have always had as a policy plank.

"wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

We aimed to give the Members well-structured Tournaments within the aforementioned time-window. I have played in many "Pro Tourneys" with a far worse structure, but I've never played a £75 Tournament with a structure even half as good, because APAT apart, they have never been offered to players at that Buy-In Level. To get a 10k stack & a 40 minute clock you'd need to pay a lot more - and a Reg fee on top!

We shall however Review all these matters at the end of Season One, in the light of feedback from Members such as yourself. But it's tough to see how we can improve it without lengthening the playing hours, & we have no plans to do that. Some of the players were very tired by the end of play tonight, & I know Rich, Des & myself certainly were.

[turny]

wasnt knocking your good selfs on this just seemed to me that late sat nite players were dropping like flies, i put this down to the structure being to fast.also 5 hours for a final imo is pretty short.

i may have been wrong there may have been other factors involved.


i agree for a £75 no juice tournament the structure is pretty good but surely by extending the clock to create a couple of extra hours a day would make it an excellent tournament and on par with many bigger buy in comps.

[M3boy]

I have played APAT tourneys, and the structure, as TK says is better than alot of PRO tourneys.

Yes people drop like flies late on day one - reason being to double up and push for a money spot or go out.

20-25xBB for a Final is pretty good imo

[tikay]

wasnt knocking your good selfs on this just seemed to me that late sat nite players were dropping like flies, i put this down to the structure being to fast.also 5 hours for a final imo is pretty short.

i may have been wrong there may have been other factors involved.


i agree for a £75 no juice tournament the structure is pretty good but surely by extending the clock to create a couple of extra hours a day would make it an excellent tournament and on par with many bigger buy in comps.

It's a policy plank that our Tournys finish at "civilised" hours on both days, to allow our Members, who mostly have regular day jobs, to play our Events. It's therefore difficult to see how the Structure could be improved.

We actually think it's already an excellent Tournament, & Member Feedback on the whole confirms that.

Personally, I'l love all Tourneys to be 4 or 5 day jobbies, but life ain't like that, & we have to strike a balance that suits the majority. It has to be tailored to fit the available hours we have allocated.

Please note also that our Tourneys begin at 2.30pm sharp, so we already play as many hours as most 2 day "pro" Tourneys, especially when you consider we stick precisely to scheduled start times & break times & thus don't "lose" playing time.

[George2Loose]

Having played in two APAT tourney's- my personal opinion is the structure is great

I have played in a few higher buy in tournaments with less starting chips and a 45 min clock so to get 10k with 5 mins less for 75 quid all in is a bargain.

In any tournament, no matter what the structure you're gonna encouter conflection points where the chips start to fly in.  That's the nature of tournament poker.

I'm off to bed now after a very fruitless Sunday.

GG life!

[tikay]

although i never played the tournament this weekend i followed it on the excellent live update thread,was i the only one who felt it became very crapshooty from a long way out?

would love feed back from those who participated.

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

personally i dont think a 40 min clock offers this as the whole tournament took less than 16 hours to complete.

i may b wrong here as i have no experience of going deep in an apat tourni so your views please

have also posted this on the apat site to see the variance in responses

"....very crapshooty from a long way out...."

With 20 players left (end of Day One) the average stack was 75,500, & Blinds were 2k-4k. Thus almost 19 x BB Average.

With 10 players left, average 151,000, the blinds were, I believe, 4k-8k. Again, that's 19 x BB.

During the Final the amount of BB v average stack fluctuated, but it was frequently at 25 x BB or more.

I guess it depends how you define "crapshooty". I've played in scores of Festival Finals where the average # of B's was far less!

[matt674]

blimey Tikay, we heard you the first time

I played my first APAT event this weekend and personally i didnt think there was anything wrong with the structure - I knew about it before hand and knew roughly where i needed to be before each level began. I knew that after the dinner break the blinds were going to be at a level where short stacks only had one move so the plan was to be at least twice the starting chips. Those who decide to take it easy the first few levels will get caught out later in the day but those who keep their stack on a steady increase will constantly have more than 20 bb's which i did most of the way - i only fell below this by the time we got to 800/1600 with 28000k but even then i never felt that i was in too much trouble, there were still good opportunities to get chips from others.

Have a plan of strategy in mind before the tourney starts and the structure isn't a problem - the 6 outers on the river however is a different matter entirely!!

[TightEnd]

surely by extending the clock to create a couple of extra hours a day would make it an excellent tournament and on par with many bigger buy in comps.

not for the live updater!!

not if live updater wants to experience Dublin!!

[Royal Flush]

although i never played the tournament this weekend i followed it on the excellent live update thread,was i the only one who felt it became very crapshooty from a long way out?

would love feed back from those who participated.

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

personally i dont think a 40 min clock offers this as the whole tournament took less than 16 hours to complete.

i may b wrong here as i have no experience of going deep in an apat tourni so your views please

have also posted this on the apat site to see the variance in responses

"....very crapshooty from a long way out...."

With 20 players left (end of Day One) the average stack was 75,500, & Blinds were 2k-4k. Thus almost 19 x BB Average.

With 10 players left, average 151,000, the blinds were, I believe, 4k-8k. Again, that's 19 x BB.

During the Final the amount of BB v average stack fluctuated, but it was frequently at 25 x BB or more.

I guess it depends how you define "crapshooty". I've played in scores of Festival Finals where the average # of B's was far less!

Since when is 20 players a long way out?

[matt674]

135 players made the first break at the end of level 4 (100/200) - Ave stack 11,200 (55 bb's)

The dinner break was taken at the end of level 7 (400/800) and i believe there were 90 runners still playing - Ave stack 16,777 (20 bb's)

it did stay pretty much this figure throughout the remainder of the tourney.

[AndrewT]

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

And it did - live pro tournaments are crapshoots at the end. As Tikay said, APAT did the best they could and achieved what they set out to do - can't see how it could be improved.

In his PRO thread for Friday's $300 Blonde double-stack freezeout in which he finalled, Flushy commented on the great structure. With 8 players left the average stack was nearly 30BBs. How high a buy-in in a live event would you have to go to guarantee an average 30BB stack at a final table?

I bet it's a lot - not even WPT final tables get that.

[turny]

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

And it did - live pro tournaments are crapshoots at the end. As Tikay said, APAT did the best they could and achieved what they set out to do - can't see how it could be improved.

In his PRO thread for Friday's $300 Blonde double-stack freezeout in which he finalled, Flushy commented on the great structure. With 8 players left the average stack was nearly 30BBs. How high a buy-in in a live event would you have to go to guarantee an average 30BB stack at a final table?

I bet it's a lot - not even WPT final tables get that.

andrew i dont understand the relevance of your last 2 paragraphs comparing a $300 online event with an apat tournament?

[turny]

well looks as though the vibes i was getting reading the update thread regards the speed of the tournament were wrong. all that played were satisfied with the structure , a fantastic achievement in itself and one that must be commended. well done guys 


i suppose the only way for me to find out myself is to enter the next apat event then manage to go deep enough to find out how it feels for myself.

not much chance of that as in the only apat event i played in cardiff i never made the dinner break! thanks to a series of big hands getting beat and the boking of kinboshi!!!!

[AndrewT]

wasn't the whole idea of these tournaments to give amateurs a taste of the structures offered in a pro tournament ?

And it did - live pro tournaments are crapshoots at the end. As Tikay said, APAT did the best they could and achieved what they set out to do - can't see how it could be improved.

In his PRO thread for Friday's $300 Blonde double-stack freezeout in which he finalled, Flushy commented on the great structure. With 8 players left the average stack was nearly 30BBs. How high a buy-in in a live event would you have to go to guarantee an average 30BB stack at a final table?

I bet it's a lot - not even WPT final tables get that.

andrew i dont understand the relevance of your last 2 paragraphs comparing a $300 online event with an apat tournament?

I was highlighting the structure that you can get in a £150 online event. A live £1000+ tournament would be more crapshooty. Therefore complaining that a £75 tournament gets a bit crapshooty seems to be not entirely fair.