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jizzemm
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« Reply #315 on: November 19, 2009, 12:02:11 AM »



Andriy Voronin 14 13 27 5 0.185


Plz Die
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #316 on: November 19, 2009, 09:22:03 AM »



Andriy Voronin 14 13 27 5 0.185


Plz Die

Has he really scored 5?!
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« Reply #317 on: November 19, 2009, 10:41:24 PM »

Not Tomkins best article:

Despite all the problems this season, the biggest ray of hope remains the chance to see a fully fit strongest XI take to the field. 
For years, the criticism was that Benítez bought too many squad players, and didn't spend his budget on the high-end, proven quality stars who cost a pretty packet.
 
But adding a £25m player to the squad he inherited was almost pointless.
 
Too many new players were needed across the board to succeed in the long-term; and if the new £25m man broke his leg, or turned out to be a Veron or a Shevchenko, Benítez would have been back to square one, sending out players who were patently not good enough.
 
If you look at how Benítez spent his first £20m, you'll see why his was the correct way. Xabi Alonso and Luis Garcia cost around £16m combined; Nunez was part of the Owen deal, but valued at around £2m I believe, and Josemi was also about £2m.
 
Critics took great pleasure in pointing out the two flops, but they were inexpensive; the two successes contributed to winning trophies and the pair left for £33m, over twice what they cost. (And even the Josemi and Nunez fees were recouped when they departed.)
 
Similarly, over the next few years, players like Reina, Agger and Benayoun have come in for £5m-£6m, and been worth their weight in gold.
 
The evolution of Liverpool's squad has continued thus. Every year we've seen some excellent players arrive, but also some who've failed to make the grade. That's natural.
 
But it can take time to integrate new players, and get the balance right; especially when the natural counterweights are unavailable to the manager.
 
One thing I discovered when researching my book ‘Dynasty' was just how many flops Bill Shankly signed; in some cases, players I'd never even heard of, and not all of them signed for negligible fees.
 
Fifty years on, and in a different era, no-one focuses on these errors of judgement; and rightly so, because of Clemence (read Reina), Keegan (read Torres), Yeats (read Mascherano), Hughes (read Alonso), et al – the top-class purchases that more than compensated.
 

 


It also backs up my theory that it's hard to make more than one outstanding purchase a season. Few managers ever manage to do better; the talent is in short supply, and competition fierce.
 
By my reckoning, Shankly signed 16 outright successes – in fifteen years; about nine or ten were bona fide greats.
 
Also by my reckoning, Benítez has signed Alonso, Reina, Torres, Agger and Mascherano, who are all up there with the best in their position. Alonso has now gone, but the others remain, and Johnson looks set to be added to that list, while Aquilani has the chance to.
 
These days, you need a bigger squad. And another problem is that some of your signings cannot be as successful as they would if they got regular football; but despite needing to buy more players, you can still only start with eleven.
 
Part of the problem in 2004 was that age was not on Benítez's side – or should I say, in Houllier's side. Of those Rafa inherited, most of the best half a dozen were 30 or over.
 
Houllier had created an excellent, experienced squad by 2001, but three years later the squad was suddenly full of inferior imports; the young replacements, like Diao, Diouf and Cheyrou, were just not good enough, and his better signings were knocking on in years.
 
So by the time additions were made by Benítez to replace the deadwood in all areas of the team – two or three years down the line – the likes of Hyypia, Finnan and Hamann themselves would be tailing off (while the excellent Markus Babbel had seen his career wrecked by illness).
 
So Houllier's best signings were never going to serve Benítez for very long, and his worst were on long contracts, with their values dwindling rapidly.
 
Perhaps this is why the Reds peaked at 3rd in the league in 2006 with a very healthy 82 points, then dipped for a couple of seasons; already another mini-transition was necessary.
 
By the time the Reds finished 2nd, with 86 points, Hamann and Finnan were gone, and the ageing Hyypia was scarcely needed. Liverpool's worthy title challenge came with only that one Houllier signing, and the Finn played just a handful of games.
 
And of course, going back to 2004, Michael Owen had kept his options (or rather his contract) open in order to be able to leave to Real Madrid (which was his right), while Harry Kewell, one of the few other top-class players, was just never fit. Had injuries not blighted his career at Liverpool, more might have been achieved.
 
But Kewell became yet one more player who needed replacing around the three/four-year mark, when it was clear that he would never offer enough.
 
In the case of both Owen and Kewell, the Reds were unable to recoup the money their natural ability and previous reputations merited. Contract situations, and injuries, meant that the club gained just £8m for the pair. That meant less to reinvest.
 
Now, as 2010 approaches, we're seeing something very different from the critics. Liverpool, it's decreed, don't have a good enough squad. For four years the criticism was “the first XI needs improving”; now it's about squad depth.
 
And yet the first XI, to my mind, is now as good as anyone else's in the Premiership; a real achievement in team building. The problem is, we've not got even close to seeing it in 2009/10.
 
The positive is that it remains something to look forward to; in particular, the attacking triumvirate of Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani, which, in theory, is mouth-watering.
 
And the squad is far better than the critics suggest; however, it does not have the almost unending depth of the biggest spenders.
 
Saturday's opponents, Manchester City, have a quite incredible cluster of strikers, but keeping them happy long-term will be a challenge (the large wage packets help).
 
Maybe they could attract them all to City with the promise of being in the first team, with the position yet to be nailed down by anyone. But at Liverpool, everyone knows who the centre-forward will be if everyone is fit; making it both a blessing and a curse.
 
You can ask potential signings to challenge Torres for the role, but they will have realistic ideas of their chances.
 
Peter Crouch was already at the club, and a great player to have in the squad, but turned down the offer of a new deal because he knew he couldn't play every week.
 
Even then, a player Benítez was mocked for signing left for a profit, despite only a year being left on his deal. And with brilliant ignorance, some pundits continue to slate the manager for not wanting him! Crouch is now at Spurs, challenging for a starting place, but as good as they are, Keane is no Gerrard and Defoe is no Torres.
 
Benítez has also received untold criticism in the past 18 months for persisting with David N'Gog, who was a teenager when he arrived last year. Now people are finally seeing the young Frenchman's worth.
 
In many senses, N'Gog is the perfect back-up for Torres, because he's talented, but very much a willing apprentice. When you have a real, one-in-a-million star, the understudy has to accept his position, but also keep working to close the gap.
 
In an ideal world it'd be great to have two ‘finished-article' world-class forwards warming the bench, but it's simply unrealistic. In an ideal world, N'Gog would be 23/24 now, but what would he have cost? Not £1.5m.
 
And this is where another bonus from this most testing of seasons comes in. While the team has struggled at times when massively under-strength, the same is not true of every player.
 
At the start of the campaign, Insua was a mere squad man, N'Gog was (ludicrously) mocked for being a ‘no-one', and Lucas was given dog's abuse by people unable to see his true worth.
 
Now, each has significantly enhanced his reputation. If all three were on the bench – as might well be the case if the best XI was available – then suddenly that bench would seem stronger. Still so young, none is anywhere close to finishing his development, but each has improved. In these trying times, to differing degrees, they've come of age.
 
People are now admitting that Lucas is far better than they gave him credit for. And the more aware will realise that N'Gog actually has the best goals-per-minute ratio at the club; it was good last season, but now it's better than Torres'.
 
That doesn't mean N'Gog could keep up that incredible rate when starting games week after week, but it does mean that he can be an excellent impact player and a fine understudy, as seen in the way he finished off Manchester United and tortured Birmingham's defence.
 
But of course Liverpool's best hope of success lies with getting its best players onto the field as much as possible. Shocking luck with injuries can undermine any side.
 
I make it that the following defenders have started major games: Carragher, Agger, Johnson, Skrtel, Insua, Kelly, Kyrgiakos, Degen, Ayala and Aurelio.
 
That's ten defenders starting in the Premiership or Champions League by November! (Therefore not even including the League Cup, while in the Champions League there have been no dead-rubbers.)
 
Even with rotation, you might expect five or six at the most by this stage; seven at a push. Two of those ten defenders were teenagers making their full debuts, while of course Johnson and Kyrgiakos are new additions to the team.
 
It's no wonder the Reds have been shipping more goals than you'd expect. The same has been true of Manchester United when they've had key absentees this season; shipping three at home to CSKA Moscow, for example. The same has been true of Chelsea when they've been without John Terry.
 
As mentioned earlier, Liverpool have a first team as strong as any Premiership rival – providing Aquilani is as good as he was for Roma.
 
Indeed, while there's always a chance a player can fail to adapt, let's not forget the chance that Aquilani could actually be better than he was in Italy. As seen with Torres leaving his boyhood Atléti , it can be emancipating to leave your hometown club, where you've carried a burden.
 
Sometimes you need to escape to reinvent yourself, and be taken more seriously. So the Italian is not limited to reproducing only what he achieved in Rome – in what is, when every Liverpool player is fit, a better side; if he really shines, the team can, too.
 
And I'd still take this current collection of players over any I've seen since 1988. For me, it's stronger than the last title-winning side in 1990.
 
But even that glorious 1988 vintage would have struggled without Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge and Hansen. If they'd all been injured, we would not still be talking about that side being better than the Brazilians.
 
And this current collection has age on its side; the same group of players can mature together over the next four or five years. Carragher aside, all are in their 20s, and most in their mid-20s.
 
There's a lot to look forward to, if enough players get fit and stay fit. Of course this season is already undermined by some poor results (some deserved, some definitely not).
 
But as we saw with Arsenal last season, a bad few months at the start of a campaign does not mean the team or its manager is on the slide.
 
Far from it.
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« Reply #318 on: November 20, 2009, 10:58:04 AM »

I wholly disagree Agger 'is up there with the best' in his position at the moment, he still has a lot to prove, simply because he 'looks sexy' when he carries the ball out of defence masks flaws imo...
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« Reply #319 on: November 20, 2009, 11:15:57 AM »



Andriy Voronin 14 13 27 5 0.185


he was shit hot in germany though, no?
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« Reply #320 on: November 20, 2009, 12:55:46 PM »



Andriy Voronin 14 13 27 5 0.185


he was shit hot in germany though, no?

11 in 20 according to Wiki , but still a pornstar wannabe donk!
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The Baron
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« Reply #321 on: November 20, 2009, 07:18:07 PM »

I wholly disagree Agger 'is up there with the best' in his position at the moment, he still has a lot to prove, simply because he 'looks sexy' when he carries the ball out of defence masks flaws imo...

Couldn't disagree more. Apart from beefing up a little, which is something I'd like to see, his reading of the game looks absolutely superb, he has pace and is good in the air.
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sweet potata!
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« Reply #322 on: November 20, 2009, 07:41:29 PM »

I wholly disagree Agger 'is up there with the best' in his position at the moment, he still has a lot to prove, simply because he 'looks sexy' when he carries the ball out of defence masks flaws imo...

Couldn't disagree more. Apart from beefing up a little, which is something I'd like to see, his reading of the game looks absolutely superb, he has pace and is good in the air.

I'd agree with Baron in the main but chip is right when he says Agger looks sexy when he carries the ball out!
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« Reply #323 on: November 21, 2009, 12:45:06 AM »

I wholly disagree Agger 'is up there with the best' in his position at the moment, he still has a lot to prove, simply because he 'looks sexy' when he carries the ball out of defence masks flaws imo...

Couldn't disagree more. Apart from beefing up a little, which is something I'd like to see, his reading of the game looks absolutely superb, he has pace and is good in the air.

Maybe flaws is the wrong word, Ive just checked, he's played 24 league games in 2 1/2 years, I wanna see him being consistent for at least a season before he is considered up there with best, he's proved very little imo
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marcin123
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« Reply #324 on: November 24, 2009, 10:51:54 AM »

Wee tonight is the night you go out of Europe... YAY cupcake
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TheChipPrince
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« Reply #325 on: November 24, 2009, 11:08:20 AM »

Wee tonight is the night you go out of Europe... YAY cupcake

We sure can go out of Europe tonight...
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« Reply #326 on: November 24, 2009, 11:25:24 AM »

Wee tonight is the night you go out of Europe... YAY cupcake

We sure can go out of Europe tonight...

well unless lyon win away in italy - and to be honest with them already being thru its a home banker for me
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« Reply #327 on: November 24, 2009, 11:37:44 AM »

Wee tonight is the night you go out of Europe... YAY cupcake

We sure can go out of Europe tonight...

well unless lyon win away in italy - and to be honest with them already being thru its a home banker for me

I repeat, we sure can go out of Europe tonight...
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« Reply #328 on: November 24, 2009, 11:38:51 AM »

Wee tonight is the night you go out of Europe... YAY cupcake

We sure can go out of Europe tonight...

well unless lyon win away in italy - and to be honest with them already being thru its a home banker for me

I repeat, we sure can go out of Europe tonight...

Lol are you suggesting that might be another European competition that Liverpool could be involved in later this season?
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« Reply #329 on: November 24, 2009, 11:39:39 AM »

Wee tonight is the night you go out of Europe... YAY cupcake

We sure can go out of Europe tonight...

well unless lyon win away in italy - and to be honest with them already being thru its a home banker for me

I repeat, we sure can go out of Europe tonight...

Lol are you suggesting that might be another European competition that Liverpool could be involved in later this season?

Wink
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