Do you bet busted flush draws?

[TightEnd]

I know, too general a question but give me some opinions:


you've got four to a flush with two cards to come, you stay in the hand (leaving notions of pot odds alone for a moment) and you miss.


you are first to act on the river against one opponent...how often would you bet? what sort of amounts do you bet relative to the pot size (overbet?)? does betting a busted draw work better online?

over to you...

[mikkyT]

Ive certainly seen more success betting the busted draw online than in a live game. The only thing I can think is either I don't do it often enough live, or at all, or people have gotten to know me. I am certainly far more agressive online than live.

I play almost exclusively tournaments at the moment online, both STT and MTT. I take into account my current chip count and how the opponent has played in previous hands. I would never check.

I would fire out a large bet if I believe he was also drawing to the flush, perhaps also with bottom pair.

If he is a loose player likely to call a sizeable bet with a middle holding I would also fire out a large bet but I would be consious of an overbet giving off the signal that I'd missed the draw and thus giving him the come on.

I have no idea whether this is correct play or not

[NoflopsHomer]

I'd only tend to bet a busted flush draw if I'd been betting it in previous rounds.

[ACE2M]

I'd only tend to bet a busted flush draw if I'd been betting it in previous rounds.

What he said. I love pretending to chase when i have flopped a boat and there are 2 suited cards out there, that often pays the maximum if the 3rd card doesn't hit.

[matt674]

It is too vague a question as depending on a variety of situations (your opponent, the stage of the tourney, what you put your opponent on, what cards are on board, how your opponents perceive you). the answer will constantly differ depending on the outcome of each variable.

[snoopy1239]

Obviously it depends on the standard of play at your table, but in the $1/2 NL cash games I frequent, betting the missed flush draw on the river is a definite no no.

My logic behind this is that the online players don't like folding. If they have made two consecutive bets, then the chances are they have a minimum second pair holding. For your bluff to go through, it's going to have to be pretty chunky. With two bets worth in the pot, people just aren't interesting in folding. Of course some will, but in the long-run, I think this move will cost you.

If you think they themselves are bluffing, then betting the river is kind of pointless. If they have a flush or straight draw, then, if you hold the ace, you have them beat anyhow. If you don't hold the ace, then I'm not sure it is a good idea to chase a draw that could still potentially be behind if it hits.

I find that many players struggle to check a missed flush draw on the river, even if they have a feeling they're bet will get called. So perhaps you can use this to your advantage. If an oppenent has made two swift calls and then bet the river after your check, a missed flush draw is a strong possibility. It's either nuts or a bluff in my experience, but if they have the nuts then the flatcalls are often a little slower as they want you to think they're mulling it over. If he had 2nd, 3rd or 4th pair, then he'd just check it down. Even top pair holdings tend to check out of caution. Two pair or trips would probably have raised somewhere down the line, so your biggest fear on an unpaired board should be a str8.

If I've been betting top or 2nd pair, then I will always check the river and call a bet. Few are good enough to make a value bet, so it'll more often than not be a bluff.

To conclude, I say check it and use the fact that many players like to bet it to your advantage.

[jezza777]

Well said Snerpy

[The Baron]

Agreed with Snoop Doggy Dog.

The size of the bet on the river is an indicator more often than not. Larger bets indicate the busted flush draw in my online experience. I'm always more weary of the fishier bets. Like $30 into a pot of $120 etc.

"I find that many players struggle to check a missed flush draw on the river, even if they have a feeling they're bet will get called. So perhaps you can use this to your advantage. If an oppenent has made two swift calls and then bet the river after your check, a missed flush draw is a strong possibility. It's either nuts or a bluff in my experience, but if they have the nuts then the flatcalls are often a little slower as they want you to think they're mulling it over. If he had 2nd, 3rd or 4th pair, then he'd just check it down. Even top pair holdings tend to check out of caution. Two pair or trips would probably have raised somewhere down the line, so your biggest fear on an unpaired board should be a str8."

Spot on. It is worth noting what straight possibilities the river has brought and playing accordingly here.