The end..

[AdamM]

Really simple for me :

Smoking Ban = SAVING LIVES

We should ask ourselves how many people working in the Licensed Trade have died through Passive smoking?

none

passive smoking is a myth

no it isn't

studies show non-smoking spouses of smokers have a 20-30% increase in lung cancer and non-smoking workers exposed to second hand smoke have a 12-19% increased in lung cancer cases

[Dingdell]

I am a smoker.   I would like to stop smoking.  Since being ill and on bed rest I only smoke more.  However,  I disagree with the ban.  Not because I mind going outside I dont.  There are many reasons why I think the owner of certain permises should be allow to choose whether their establishment is smoking or non smoking.

We have a cafe in town,  it is always full.   Nearly all of the customers smoke  there are many non smoking cafes in the town.   Doesnt the man have the right to choose how he runs his business.   My father for many years had a pub, not a trendy kiddies pub but a darts and dominoes old timers pub.  Roll ups cigars and a lounge for the women.  My father would have lost 3/4 of his trade.  How many pensioners, many who fought for the country and were issued tabacco by the armed forces should now be forced to stand in a cage.

1. Knowledge about smoking is different now then when they issued tobacco. What happened before is irrelevant - the government issuing tobacco was wrong but they didn't know that. If we don't embrace and act on new information men would still use pig skins instead of condoms.....

2. They don't have to stand in a cage - they can choose to leave the building if they want. Their choice if they want to smoke.

3. In Ireland the pub trade hasn't suffered, in fact I would be keener to return to Ireland now because going to a pub was much more enjoyable than before the ban. I am much more likely to go out for a drink than I was before.

4. No one is stopping ayone else from smoking - just not in my face and to the detriment of my health. If someone sat at a casino and chose to poke you with a sharp stick while sitting nextdoor to you you would have cause for complaint, although it's probably doing you less harm than a smoker sitting next door puffing away.

Interesting, i saw a program about the Irish pub trade that said it was devastated by the ban.
Also there is STILL no proven link between lung cancer and smoking, passive or otherwise.
It increases the risk but not particularly significantly actually.
Before everyone jumps on their soapbox i'm not saying it's all good just some manipulation of facts is all.

I think initially there was a drop in punters in the pubs in Ireland but once they realised they could get on a bus in the carpark and have a fag they came back!

[The_nun]

Really simple for me :

Smoking Ban = SAVING LIVES

We should ask ourselves how many people working in the Licensed Trade have died through Passive smoking?

none

passive smoking is a myth

A myth? I would love to see the evidence to support that. I guess it is like the warnings on ciggy pkts..are they myths too?

[Karabiner]

Anyhow, tough sh*t is all I have to say to all those who feel that the ban is an infringement on their civil rights.

 

[Jim-D]

Anyhow, tough sh*t is all I have to say to all those who feel that the ban is an infringement on their civil rights.

 

 

[ifm]

A myth? I would love to see the evidence to support that. I guess it is like the warnings on ciggy pkts..are they myths too?

Oddly to a high degree yes, "smoking causes cancer" is not actually true is it?
I smoke and don't have cancer, of every smoker i have met or known in my life i know of none that have had any form of cancer, the only person i have ever known is my brother in law who is a Jehovah and has never smoked or drank in his life.
If smoking caused cancer then everyone who smoked would get it, now with other substances this is correct, if you ingested nikel every day (actually every once in a while) you WILL get cancer because that does cause it.
The truth is may increase the risk of cancer but that doesn't fit on a fag packet does it?

[The_nun]

A myth? I would love to see the evidence to support that. I guess it is like the warnings on ciggy pkts..are they myths too?

Oddly to a high degree yes, "smoking causes cancer" is not actually true is it?
I smoke and don't have cancer, of every smoker i have met or known in my life i know of none that have had any form of cancer, the only person i have ever known is my brother in law who is a Jehovah and has never smoked or drank in his life.
If smoking caused cancer then everyone who smoked would get it, now with other substances this is correct, if you ingested nikel every day (actually every once in a while) you WILL get cancer because that does cause it.
The truth is may increase the risk of cancer but that doesn't fit on a fag packet does it?..

So smoking does NOT cause cancer....wow .. news to me. But not here to argue with you .

[ifm]

I didn't say that did i?
You asked about the warnings on packets.
I am saying that it is not that black and white, it increases the risk it does not cause it in every case as the warning i referred to indicates.
The warnings are designed to put people in fear, nothing wrong in that i would hate my kids to smoke but it's not technically correct.

[fearisthekey]

I didn't say that did i?
You asked about the warnings on packets.
I am saying that it is not that black and white, it increases the risk it does not cause it in every case as the warning i referred to indicates.
The warnings are designed to put people in fear, nothing wrong in that i would hate my kids to smoke but it's not technically correct.

It relates to a medical parameter known as 'diathesis' or vulnerability (to a certain disease). In those people with the vulnerability, the smoking itself causes the cancer. Of this there is no doubt. The carcinogens come from the smoke. These carcinogens cause the cells to go out of control (cancer). Even though this may not happen to everyone who smokes, it still is the case that smoking does cause cancer.
Drinking 5 pints of alcohol causes slurred speech and lack of coordination.......
There will be some people for whom this is not the case........does this mean that alcohol is not the cause of the slurred speech and lack of coordination in the others?
The risk of cancer/heart/lung disease in those who smoke is substantially higher than in those who do not: fact. And this is demonstrated in longitudinal and cross-sectional studies. If you have not smoked, it is quite difficult to get lung cancer. Is this a random fluke? Is lung cancer in the smokers caused by touching too many matches??
My last boss, (strangely himself a top scientist), was a 60 a day man, and also denied the link. I think it was the nicotine talking to him.....

[ifm]

I'm not in denial i know it ain't good for you i'm fascinated by the manipulation of the "facts" is all.
For everything you paste from the Ash website there is contrary stuff on the forrest website, truth is we probably need another few generations to even explain why cancer appears in some and not others.
Why some non smokers get lung cancer and some 60 per day smokers don't, it's a great enigma at the moment, passive smoking is described by many as the big cop out, a way to explain the statistical anomalies where smoking "related" diseases affect those outside of that particular range.
I don't care either way who is "the most accurate" truthwise, as said i know it isn't good for myself and those around me, my kids will have hell to pay if they smoke because i believe it to be a bad thing.
The ban itself i dislike because it simply is not fair, just another staelth tax on businesses.

[AdamM]

in what way is it a stealth tax?

[The_nun]

well as long as i can go where i like and come home smelling/ feeling as fresh as when i went out without the added worry of possibly getting lung cancer i am happy.

[ifm]

in what way is it a stealth tax?

Businesses get large fines for any infraction.

[AdamM]

hardly constitutes a tax though.

They get fined for serving under age drinkers but that's not a tax

[ifm]

No they get warned then lose their license.