Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

Its incredible when you look back at some of the business deals that have been done over the years and valuations etc both in terms of great and appalling value.  As much as I love Blonde the idea/business plan that made someone think it was worth £800k is a spreadsheet I would have loved to have seen.  We have all been there.  I was once involved in putting together a deal that proposed paying the football365 and associated brands £19m over 5 years for advertising a brand that we hadn't put together yet.  At the time they had a market capitalisation of over £500m and, amazingly, got a better offer of some kind.  A few weeks later the market crashed and it all fell to pieces.  Was also involved in a proposed deal to bring a sports betting business and casino business together with, the little known Party Poker together in a listed vehicle.  The owners of Party were to get £5m for their business but in between agreeing a price and bringing it all together their business took off and they decided they wanted another £2m.  The guys that were putting together the financing were greatly offended by this and decided to drop them from the deal.......2 years later Party floated for £5bn!!!  

Great stuff Stuart.

For the record, it was widely agreed that blonde's worth was nothing even approaching that. By any realistic valuation (at the time) it was £200k, £250k tops.

So I was neither shocked nor overly put out when it fell through. If it happened, happy days, if it did not, the value was identical to what it was prior to their interest. A weasel was spotted sleeping, but just as we prepared to take aim, it woke up.

But some of the deals around at the time were astonishing, by any standards.

The market has changed completely now, & in my opinion, very much for the better. Sanity had to gain the upper hold eventually.

The days of ridiculous rake wars have gone foerever. It is as tough as hell for a skin to make a decent living, once the Network Charges, cage costs, da de da, have all been paid for, then you have to pay a bit of rake. It don't leave much.

I'm in awe of the likes of Rob Yong & Neil Channing trying to earn a crust from a poker site. As a standalone site (unless you are 'Stars) it must be well uphill.

blonde did it for a few years, & I've never known such aggro. We earned $16,000 one month, & then the Service Provider said "oh, by the way, you have $22,000 of dodgy credit card deposits to pay for".

How come?  Send us the details.

So they did. And we discovered they had been taking NEW DEPOSITS via Credit card from Afghanistan, Russia, Iraq, Sierra Leone. WTF?!

So we said "but we don''t advertise, operate or have a presence in those places, surely you know they must be bogus transactions?"

"Ahh, but under the Contract, that is not our responsiblity" they said.

We toyed with the idea of going Legal on them. So we looked at their Letterhead. "Operated according to Cayman Islands Law".

Fair enough, help yourself then boys.

You don't half learn some lessons in life, as you trundle along the bendy bumpy road.

It does tickle me though when I see the kids being "on life tilt" over some minor poker inconvenience! God knows how they will cope they have encounter some proper tilty stuff.

Rank paid Intercapital a huge amount for Blue Squirrel. £180m rings a bell

Sold to Betfair for £5m 10 years later

Why they didn't launch their own site is absolutely beyond me.

Bugger only knows how much they lost in total - I'd be surprised if Bluesq made any money in the 10 years they owned it.

It can't really be measured like that Keith - an Online poker site such as Blue Square existed ONLY as a cross-selling tool. We have no way of ever knowing how much it earned in cross-sell.

In a typical multi-media Online Gaming Platform, one of THE most important KPI's is Cross-Sell. Casino & Bingo don't offer rakeback, & Online Bookmaking is a perfect goldmine. Suddenly, an Online Poker site has a lot more value if it delivers sign-ups who can be exposed to cross-sell. Never underestimate the value of cross-sell. It is worth far & away more than the potential poker margin a sign-up will generate "lifetime".

[celtic]

This is (allegedly) cisse, who objects to wonga.com, pictured in a casino in the last couple of days.

[tikay]

Mansion, the ultimate goldmine. I still bully my housemate for not playing the ridiculous 50k(? might have even been 100k?) guarantee tourney that never got close to the mark. He also had 110% rakeback deal as a prop for a time, quite a nifty deal for a 6max turned HU specialist!

Seem obscene beats there Tikay. And that norcal blokes blog is tilting. I'm sure I have 10% of that in me but sometimes a fish is a fish!

Ooh, that daily Mansion Tourney! $100k per DAY, Guaranteed, & it rarely made more than $50,000, which included, at my estimate, $30,000 of giveaways. I think blonde gave away 10 seats PER DAY! So did THM, AWOP, da de da.

The deal they gave Marc Goodwin was breathtaking. Private jets & all sorts.

Norcal's blog? I sort of feel a bit sorry for him really, I wanna take him to one side & explain the facts of life. He cannot possibly ENJOY poker, & he does not earn a bean. So he either gets his head in the right place, or gives up, imo. I think we all went through that phase when we started out, but if it lasts longer than 3 months, we must be a bit lacking up top. The answer is in the maths. If some old fart wearing a Sky Poker patch & with an ippy makes a bad call, surely, over time, Mr Norcal will end up a millionaire? So we ought to be handle the short term beats for the long term gain, no?

Instead, he wants to "puke". What? A bad beat in a single hand of poker makes a pro poker player want to puke?

Jeez, that is some sheltered life!

I'll fold pre next time.

[tikay]

This is (allegedly) cisse, who objects to wonga.com, pictured in a casino in the last couple of days.

Whoops!

In truth, they don't object at all, but it is all grist to the anti Ashley mill. IMO, of course.

[tikay]

This is (allegedly) cisse, who objects to wonga.com, pictured in a casino in the last couple of days.

That appears to be Aspers Newcastle, yes?

The light fittings are the giveaway. Very interesting topic, luminescence levels in a casino, or Supermarket, you know.....I spent years traipsing round supermarkets with light meters, & making a case for better lighting. So many ways to earn a crust......

[rfgqqabc]

This is (allegedly) cisse, who objects to wonga.com, pictured in a casino in the last couple of days.

That appears to be Aspers Newcastle, yes?

The light fittings are the giveaway. Very interesting topic, luminescence levels in a casino, or Supermarket, you know.....I spent years traipsing round supermarkets with light meters, & making a case for better lighting. So many ways to earn a crust......

Surely he can't be that stupid?!?!? Surely he tries to fly to Macau or Morocco or somewhere for some anonymity. It definitely looks a lot like Aspers Newcastle. Completely agree about light fittings etc, not sure about quality of light though! Looks pretty dark here I must say.

[celtic]

Not sure where it is. I nicked it off Facebook.

[tikay]

This is (allegedly) cisse, who objects to wonga.com, pictured in a casino in the last couple of days.

That appears to be Aspers Newcastle, yes?

The light fittings are the giveaway. Very interesting topic, luminescence levels in a casino, or Supermarket, you know.....I spent years traipsing round supermarkets with light meters, & making a case for better lighting. So many ways to earn a crust......

Surely he can't be that stupid?!?!? Surely he tries to fly to Macau or Morocco or somewhere for some anonymity. It definitely looks a lot like Aspers Newcastle. Completely agree about light fittings etc, not sure about quality of light though! Looks pretty dark here I must say.

I'd wager it was Aspers Newcastle, even the dealers uniforms are the same colour.

"Light levels" does not always mean "bright is good", Casinos like a bit of shade, & dark.

[JaffaCake]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/18/sports-direct-staff-bonus-profits

"Four years ago all full-time staff who had been with the company since 2008 were promised free shares if profit targets were hit in 2009. When that target was hit they were handed a 25% bonus on their base salary, paid in shares worth £1 each. Those shares soared in value, and when a first 25% tranche of free shares were awarded last year, someone earning £20,000 a year almost doubled their take-home pay with shares worth £17,500.

While impressive, that payout was a mere pittance compared with the huge windfall that follows Thursday's results. The same staff member earning £20,000 will now get 12,000 shares worth a further £75,000.

The lucky 2,000 are now free to sell the shares – and Sports Direct has even provided a free stockbroking service to help them cash in."

Lovely!

Makes me chuckle when I see Newcastle United supporters describe Mike Ashley as an "idiot" & a "clown". The supporters know better than him, obv.

What a weird world we live in!

Do u write these things do get a bite?! I don't think the supports are doubting the way he runs his business, tho all Newcastle fans boycott his shops. Being a football chairman, you're never gonna be popular by making the club run self sufficiently, which is what he's done. He is the only billionaire football club owner who isn't throwing cash at the club, which is the only way to compete with Chelsea, Man City etc.

You can't call him an idiot or clown for not wanting to do that. You can, however, call him an idiot for changing the name of St James's Park, which has been called that for 120 years. History is important to football fans and Newcastle fans, whose team are obv nowhere near as good as they were in the past.

Bringing in Dennis Wise, probably the most hated player (who didn't play for Sunderland) I can remember in 30 years following them was pretty idiotic. Signing a sponsorship deal with a money lending firm, when your three best (at least) players are Muslims and this may cause a conflict/excuse for them to leave is not very bright either.

From a Newcastle supporting point of view, the man is an idiot. He's an idiot to have any interest in the club as well, surely he doesn't need the hassle. From a business point of view he's very successful and good at what he does. I think you're confusing the comments with some kind of assessment of his business prowess.

If people call John Terry an idiot for the way he behaves, it doesn't stop him being an excellent centre half

Not forgotten this Jeff.

I do occasionally spread a bit of ground bait, good naturedly of course, but no, in this case, I was serious.

It will take me an age to reply, & I'll need to do so in bite size chunks, because from where I sit, many of your arguments are flawed.

But we won't fall out, eh? That's an order, not a request.  

Let's start with the easy stuff.


Signing a sponsorship deal with a money lending firm, when your three best (at least) players are Muslims and this may cause a conflict/excuse for them to leave is not very bright either.

Ahh, Wonga.com.

Listen, I bet I have more reason to despise them than every Newcastle United supporter added together. Their dreadful sysyems caused me to be defrauded to the tune of nearly £15,000 earlier this year. And I have NEVER had any dealings with Wonga. I got every penny back from the Bank eventually, but jeez, on the way I had so much aggro & stress.

But you mention the Muslim footballers who are in conflict because Wonga loan money? So they cannot countenance receiving Wonga's shilling, right? What about the Barclays shilling though? They sponsor the Premier League. And Barclays make their money by........loaning money to others. Same thing, different degrees of interest.

Credit Card companies sponsored several Championship sides too. 26% APR, is it?

Then there is Ramadan. Very few Muslim footballers could obey the Ramadan strictures & still play Pro football during the 30 days of Ramadan. Most of them manage, though. So I don't honestly buy the Wonga offends Muslim footballers thing.

And that is just for starters. Plenty more to follow.

Play nicely now.....

Of course Tony, we're both too old to be losing friends over football discussion...some of us more than others.

Couldn't agree more about the Barclays comparison, or even the fact that even if he doesn't wear a Wonga branded shirt, he'll still be benefiting from their sponsorship. I think that mistake of Ashley's is it gives his three best players an excuse/reason to push for a move/want to break a contract, I don't think their reasoning is genuine, as u say, I think if you're that strict a practising Muslim, being a pro footballer really isn't a profession u can take up.

I know all about your Wonga fun and games as an avid reader here. I don't much care for them either way, don't like any banks much me. I still think giving the players a reason/excuse to break contracts is a bad move. The other reasons I listed are more pertinent I think tho

[RED-DOG]

Am just watching a programme on BBCFOUR called Some Vicars with Jokes. Sort of a follow on from Old Jews Telling Jokes, which I loved. A series of shaggy dog stories from priests, vicars, deacons, canons and other folk of cloth.

First one really tickled me, even though it could have been in The Comedians:

FYI

Tony doesn't do jokes, he does concrete.

[DaveShoelace]

http://www.thehendonmob.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46764

Thought this would be a good place to have a 'isn't Joe Beevers a legend?' chat, now that the Hendon Mob has just been sold to the GPI.

Would love to know how much it went for.

[tikay]

http://www.thehendonmob.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46764

Thought this would be a good place to have a 'isn't Joe Beevers a legend?' chat, now that the Hendon Mob has just been sold to the GPI.

Would love to know how much it went for.

Wow!

A fit so perfect, you could not make it up.

I was thinking about GPI whilst in Vegas. They had a stand in the Rio Corridor, & I was interested in how accurate their ratings/database was, & whether it was as good as the "free to all" THM Database.

Whether it will remain "free to air" is another matter of course.

The sale price? Not for us to speculate really, but I would suspect a pretty tidy number. They deserve every penny, too. Joe, in particular, has worked so hard, & diligently for so many years on that Database.

I saw Joe recently, & he seemed in good heart.

Legend? Well I think everyone knows the high regard I hold Joe in.

Suffice to say, he has been pre-eminent in the British scene for over 10 years now, & has always conducted himself with great dignity & professionalism. Not a breath of scandal has been associated with him, or not that I am aware of. 

If ever a guy in UK poker deserved more respect, it is Joe Beevers. The Godfather of UK Poker, imo.

Here's Joe at the start of his journey, when he had that Prima deal.

It was that deal that inspired me, & so many others. They got sponsored by Prima Poker to play EVERY event at the WSOP. And I remember thinking, wow, I want to do that one day.

I still have that dream, & it'll never happen, but Joe lit that flame.

Click to see full-size image.

[tikay]

He's aged a bit from then, as you can see, but I guess being a father to his twin girls contributed to that.

Still smiling though. I like smiley people.

Don't think I've EVER heard him speak ill of anyone, either, most especially other players who stick bad beats or bad calls on him. Proper pro, see?

Guess I'd better quit with the nicey-wicey stuff, peeps will think I have an angle. I don't, I just thinks he is someone that most of us in poker could & should aspire to be.

PS - I nicked this photo. Might just get it through.


 

[DaveShoelace]

Yep, I personally have had plenty of dealings with Joe over the years and he is just an all round good guy who is easy to do business with. There are not many role models for the line of work I do simply because it is still a young industry, but Joe is one of them that's for sure.

Never liked 'the elegance' as a nickname though, sounds weird.

[tikay]

Yep, I personally have had plenty of dealings with Joe over the years and he is just an all round good guy who is easy to do business with. There are not many role models for the line of work I do simply because it is still a young industry, but Joe is one of them that's for sure.

Never liked 'the elegance' as a nickname though, sounds weird.

Agree entirely.

UK Televised Poker went through a phase where EVERYONE had a nick, they just dumbed the whole thing down, & many of those nicks were unused in the real world. Some of them were singularly inappropriate, too. Not sure Liam Flood is ever called a Gentleman in real life. Though, of course, he is.

Peter the Bandit stuck, & works.

Ram "Crazy Horse" Vaswani was awful.   

You got me thinking now, some of those nicks back in the day were soooooooo bad.