Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[AlunB]

As a continuation of yesterdays conversation.  I have just seen this:

Basically sums up what I was trying to say.

He's far too cool.

The problem with that final point is what do you do about all the racist people who are still talking about it amongst each other? Imagine if the only voice that could be heard on immigration in the UK was UKIP? *shudders*

Yep, just can't see how sensible people taking about racism will stop people becoming racists.  People were racists long before we had a word for it.  

Talking of UKIP, how the hell did Neil Hamilton get a job in politics again?   I head him rattling on about how people were getting swamped by immigrants the other day.  You'd think he wouldn't be able to say anything that would make me think any worse about him, but there it was.

For the youth, Neil Hamilton was once my MP and was a bit naughty when in office before.  

Very true that. But I'd rather have a world where people spoke out against idiots rather than tried to ignore them and hope they went away. If more people who found racist, sexist or general bigoted chat offensive said something (polite) to the person doing it I think we'd all be better off. I'm as guilty of not doing this as anyone though.

[theprawnidentity]

I think I will just adopt the Morgan Freeman approach and just stop talking about it.  I seem to have got along just fine so far without.  I still believe the media (Red tops in particular), should be made to alter their behavior on this subject though.  Their double standards are horrendous.

[AlunB]

I think I will just adopt the Morgan Freeman approach and just stop talking about it.  I seem to have got along just fine so far without.  I still believe the media (Red tops in particular), should be made to alter their behavior on this subject though.  Their double standards are horrendous.

At the risk of getting all circular in this debate it's not really about you though is it? Broadly I agree with you and that new statesman article posted earlier in the thread summed up well how everyone would prefer not to have to talk about it. But all it takes for evil to triumph is good men to do nothing and all that.

I do agree that the media, and I've always worked somewhere in the region of it, is ridiculous. But that's because a) most journalists are idiots b) they always go for the easy target and c) they are in the business of shock and awe. Sadly people don't want to read reasoned debate much.

[AlunB]

Just on point a) above. It always makes me laugh when people quote sections on health or nutrition or finance from a magazine or newspaper as if they are fact. If they had any idea how those things were often put together...

[Redsgirl]

I know I said I wouldnt argue with Morgan, but Edmund Burke said some pretty cool things too.

'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.'
 

[AlunB]

I know I said I wouldnt argue with Morgan, but Edmund Burke said some pretty cool things too.

'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.'
 

Great minds

[theprawnidentity]

Just on point a) above. It always makes me laugh when people quote sections on health or nutrition or finance from a magazine or newspaper as if they are fact. If they had any idea how those things were often put together...

Haha, this is 95% of the conversations any member of my family have with my Gran. 

Have you heard about so and so doing such and such?
What are talking about?
Well apparently person x has done thing y....
Where have you heard that?
It was in The Sun this morning.
Oh, from The Sun?  Well it must be true then.

[tikay]

Did you ever imagine the day when Jeremy Clarkson would be "begging you for forgiveness"?

That must have been some bollocking he got from the BBC.

"contrite" & "Clarkson" are words that rarely go hand in hand.

It's quite amazing how this convo has gone from my original Post (above) to a really interesting discussion.

For the record, my post had nothing to do with racism, it was just an observation that it looked so odd to see Clarkson being so contrite, never seen such a thing before.

[tikay]

As a continuation of yesterdays conversation.  I have just seen this:

Click to see full-size image.

Basically sums up what I was trying to say.

He's far too cool.

The problem with that final point is what do you do about all the racist people who are still talking about it amongst each other? Imagine if the only voice that could be heard on immigration in the UK was UKIP? *shudders*

Yep, just can't see how sensible people taking about racism will stop people becoming racists.  People were racists long before we had a word for it.  

Talking of UKIP, how the hell did Neil Hamilton get a job in politics again?   I head him rattling on about how people were getting swamped by immigrants the other day.  You'd think he wouldn't be able to say anything that would make me think any worse about him, but there it was.

For the youth, Neil Hamilton was once my MP and was a bit naughty when in office before.  

This is something we see more & more now.

Modern society is, it seems, very forgiving/tolerant/indifferent. Not such a bad thing, on balance, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure if Blatch were to start posting here tomorrow, he'd be reasonably well received by most Members.

[AlunB]

As a continuation of yesterdays conversation.  I have just seen this:

Click to see full-size image.

Basically sums up what I was trying to say.

He's far too cool.

The problem with that final point is what do you do about all the racist people who are still talking about it amongst each other? Imagine if the only voice that could be heard on immigration in the UK was UKIP? *shudders*

Yep, just can't see how sensible people taking about racism will stop people becoming racists.  People were racists long before we had a word for it.  

Talking of UKIP, how the hell did Neil Hamilton get a job in politics again?   I head him rattling on about how people were getting swamped by immigrants the other day.  You'd think he wouldn't be able to say anything that would make me think any worse about him, but there it was.

For the youth, Neil Hamilton was once my MP and was a bit naughty when in office before.  

This is something we see more & more now.

Modern society is, it seems, very forgiving/tolerant/indifferent. Not such a bad thing, on balance, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure if Blatch were to start posting here tomorrow, he'd be reasonably well received by most Members.

This is true. People are able to reinvent themselves a lot more easily with modern media perhaps?

As to Doobs' point. Amazingly among the UKIP lot he actually looks like some kind of intellectual titan.

[david3103]

I think most people would prefer to see Blatch posting here than Neil 'cash for questions' Hamilton riding the gravy train to Brussels.

[AlunB]

http://isnigelfarageonquestiontime.com/

[AndrewT]

'There are currently 3.5million British expats who're currently living abroad in EU countries with a British passport.  If Britain were to leave the EU then they would no longer have rights to live in these countries without changing their nationality.  Most of these people are 'British' and would not want to lose their passports / residency rights to the UK and so would return to the UK to ensure they keep their citizenship.  The number of people that would return to the UK looking for jobs and hoses would far exceed the number of people who come from other EU countries looking for work / homes.'

Pretty sure the British ex-pats abroad are heavily skewed towards retirees, whereas the foreigners in the UK would be skewed against the elderly and more towards those of working age.

[AlunB]

'There are currently 3.5million British expats who're currently living abroad in EU countries with a British passport.  If Britain were to leave the EU then they would no longer have rights to live in these countries without changing their nationality.  Most of these people are 'British' and would not want to lose their passports / residency rights to the UK and so would return to the UK to ensure they keep their citizenship.  The number of people that would return to the UK looking for jobs and hoses would far exceed the number of people who come from other EU countries looking for work / homes.'

Pretty sure the British ex-pats abroad are heavily skewed towards retirees, whereas the foreigners in the UK would be skewed against the elderly and more towards those of working age.

The majority of British people emigrating abroad are of working age (89 % in 2008 to 2010).
Despite this, a lot of research on UK emigration has focused on those retiring overseas,
particularly within Europe. There was a sharp increase in British people over retirement age,
moving abroad in 2005 and 2006, reaching a peak of 22,000 in 2006. This has since fallen
back to previous levels of around 4,000 to 8,000 retired British people emigrating each year. The
growth in house values in the UK compared to elsewhere in Europe may have enabled British
property owners to sell up and live more cheaply abroad, while enjoying a better climate and
quality of life. However, this may have changed since the recession.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116025/horr68-report.pdf


Disclaimer: Didn't read the whole report, and it's not just about the EU

[scotty77]

I was playing a cash game in Malta and got talking to the dealer.  She said she's just come back from working in London and missed the UK, the good pay etc.  10 minutes later a Romanian guy did his money and left, she then whispered in my ear 'Good I'm glad, sick of Eastern European's coming here and taking our jobs'.

Pretty much every country I've been in has had the very same attitudes to 'foreigners', from the USA to South Africa.  A black South African celebrity was on some radio phone in show and said that she loved people from Mozambique but they should stay in their own country as SA is full.  This is the same SA that if the entire human population was placed inside it's borders, the population density would be something close to Tokyo.

So yeah parties like the UKIP, while are clearly mental, are just always gonna exist because it's just human nature.  Nothing to do with 'little Englanders' or even due to age/generation.  Fully expect the same stuff to be said on Question Time in 2050.