Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[RED-DOG]

The average amount of time served for murder in this country is 14 years.

The mother of baby "P" will be eligible for parole after serving just three and a half years.

Biggs was part of a gang that stole some money and made the police look silly.

[Colchester Kev]

The Great Train Robbery itself remains engraved upon my mind.

Leatherslade Farm, (Bucks) where they all hid for a week, Bridego Bridge, where the Mail Train was stopped, & the characters themselves.

The Gang was 2 Gangs really - The South West (London) & South East Gangs.

Bruce Reynolds was the architect & leader, but there were about 12 in all - Reynolds, Douglas "Goody", "Buster" Edwards, Charlkie Wilson (my favourite), Roy "The Weasel" James (a motor-racing driver), Jim Hussey, Roger Cordrey, Tom Wisbey, a few others, &, of course, Biggs, who was in fact a low-level Gang member. One guy - I forget which one - later had a flower-stall at Waterloo Statioin.

They bungled it really - lack of attention to detail. In Letherslade Farm, they wiled away the days playing Monopoly, but the geezer who was supposed to "clean up" the Farmhouse messed up, & the fingerprints of them all were on the Monopoly money, & also on a ketchup bottle. Bizarrely, the guy who owned the Monopoly Set got off, on the grounds that his fingerprints were entitled to be on the Monopoly set!

The story ran in The London Evening News - this was when The Evening Standard was not London's main evening paper - for ages, with daily revelations of bags of money being found in telephone bioxes, left luggage lockers, under park benches, all sorts.

One by one the gang all got arrested. It took 8 days to catch the first, but the rest all followed sharpish. Most got 30 years, & most did it, but Biggs became the face of the Great Train Robbery because of his exploits later.

They all went to Prison before England won the World Cup, Mobile Phones had not been invented, nor had the Internet, Walkmans, MP3's, I-Pods, MSN, Teletext, Colour Telly, Freezers, Automatic Gearboxes, or Online Poker.

Amazing how things change so quickly.

The late Buster Edwards.

[tikay]

so impressed by Des Wilson's bio tikay. How is it some people find all this time to do such amazing stuff with their lives?

I don't know Alex - but I have nothing but absolute respect for the man.

Oh to be a tenth the man he is, & to have achieved one-hundredth of what he has. Lead-Free petrol alone - how many lives has that saved?

It surprises me, in fact, that he's so absorbed in poker which, really, is a fairly shallow thing. But unlike many of us - me included - he never allowed it tro dominate his life.

There must be a reason why he's never got in the Honours List. Perhaps even he has a dark side. I sort of hope he has, in a way. Everybody should have a bit of bad in them.

[tikay]

The average amount of time served for murder in this country is 14 years.

The mother of baby "P" will be eligible for parole after serving just three and a half years.

Biggs was part of a gang that stole some money and made the police look silly.

They stole £2 million, which worked out at £200,000 each, & all got either 25 or 30 years. I never understood the severity of the Sentences. It was said it was because Jack Mills, the Train Driver, got hit on the head, but it was never established who hit him, so it seemed a bit off to give all of them 25 or 30 years inside.

As you allude, it might well be because they made such fools of the Establishment, in particular "Butler of the Yard" (lol) & Jack Slipper.

[tikay]

The Great Train Robbery itself remains engraved upon my mind.

Leatherslade Farm, (Bucks) where they all hid for a week, Bridego Bridge, where the Mail Train was stopped, & the characters themselves.

The Gang was 2 Gangs really - The South West (London) & South East Gangs.

Bruce Reynolds was the architect & leader, but there were about 12 in all - Reynolds, Douglas "Goody", "Buster" Edwards, Charlkie Wilson (my favourite), Roy "The Weasel" James (a motor-racing driver), Jim Hussey, Roger Cordrey, Tom Wisbey, a few others, &, of course, Biggs, who was in fact a low-level Gang member. One guy - I forget which one - later had a flower-stall at Waterloo Statioin.

They bungled it really - lack of attention to detail. In Letherslade Farm, they wiled away the days playing Monopoly, but the geezer who was supposed to "clean up" the Farmhouse messed up, & the fingerprints of them all were on the Monopoly money, & also on a ketchup bottle. Bizarrely, the guy who owned the Monopoly Set got off, on the grounds that his fingerprints were entitled to be on the Monopoly set!

The story ran in The London Evening News - this was when The Evening Standard was not London's main evening paper - for ages, with daily revelations of bags of money being found in telephone bioxes, left luggage lockers, under park benches, all sorts.

One by one the gang all got arrested. It took 8 days to catch the first, but the rest all followed sharpish. Most got 30 years, & most did it, but Biggs became the face of the Great Train Robbery because of his exploits later.

They all went to Prison before England won the World Cup, Mobile Phones had not been invented, nor had the Internet, Walkmans, MP3's, I-Pods, MSN, Teletext, Colour Telly, Freezers, Automatic Gearboxes, or Online Poker.

Amazing how things change so quickly.

The late Buster Edwards.

So it was, though I never knew he was dead.

[Bongo]

The Duxford Date is August 20th.

Confirmed so far.

Red-Dog. (Not been given an Option).

Mother Hen

Me.

Any more for any moire? Moaning old fogeys only please. Bring your own thermos floask & warm blanket.

Karabiner confirmed, as, I think, is Bongo.

I'll be there

[tikay]

I need to jot down - for later discussion/wordage - something I've been mulling over for a while - the Top Ten News Stories of my time, which the GTR reminds me to do.

My first stab at my Top Ten News Stories (of my age) is here - in no particular order.

Aberfan

The Great Train Robbery

John F Kennedy's Assassination.

The Clinton-Lewinsky debacle.

Robert Maxwell

John Stonehouse

The "Troubles" in Northern Ireland

Watergate. (Will deffo be the top of my final List).

The Thatcher Years

On the "might be" list are....

The '66 World Cup

Vietnam War.

The fall of the Berlin Wall.

Munich Air Disaster

9/11

I'm pretty sure I've missed a few I should have remembered. I'll amend as & wehen.

What would your Tiop Ten news Stories be?

[TightEnd]

A few years ago I happened to visit Mentmore in Buckinghamshire very near the bridge where the robbery took place. I can't remember why I ended up there! There they had one of theTPO carriages exhibited with Robbery memorabilia. Stunningly restored and fascinating to anoraks! The same carriage is now preserved at Birmingham Railway Museum.


Anyway tikay...why do you have a lot of respect for "old style" villains? Characters of course, but still villains nonetheless

[TightEnd]

I need to jot down - for later discussion/wordage - something I've been mulling over for a while - the Top Ten News Stories of my time, which the GTR reminds me to do.

My first stab at my Top Ten News Stories (of my age) is here - in no particular order.

Aberfan

The Great Train Robbery

John F Kennedy's Assassination.

The Clinton-Lewinsky debacle.

Robert Maxwell

John Stonehouse

The "Troubles" in Northern Ireland

Watergate. (Will deffo be the top of my final List).

The Thatcher Years

On the "might be" list are....

The '66 World Cup

Vietnam War.

The fall of the Berlin Wall.

Munich Air Disaster

9/11

I'm pretty sure I've missed a few I should have remembered. I'll amend as & wehen.

What would your Tiop Ten news Stories be?

Mandela/Apartheid in there somewhere?


9/11 only on the "might" list?

[77dave]

privatisation of the railways?

Princess Diana

Falklands/Iraq

[Karabiner]

The Great Train Robbery itself remains engraved upon my mind.

Leatherslade Farm, (Bucks) where they all hid for a week, Bridego Bridge, where the Mail Train was stopped, & the characters themselves.

The Gang was 2 Gangs really - The South West (London) & South East Gangs.

Bruce Reynolds was the architect & leader, but there were about 12 in all - Reynolds, Douglas "Goody", "Buster" Edwards, Charlkie Wilson (my favourite), Roy "The Weasel" James (a motor-racing driver), Jim Hussey, Roger Cordrey, Tom Wisbey, a few others, &, of course, Biggs, who was in fact a low-level Gang member. One guy - I forget which one - later had a flower-stall at Waterloo Statioin.

They bungled it really - lack of attention to detail. In Letherslade Farm, they wiled away the days playing Monopoly, but the geezer who was supposed to "clean up" the Farmhouse messed up, & the fingerprints of them all were on the Monopoly money, & also on a ketchup bottle. Bizarrely, the guy who owned the Monopoly Set got off, on the grounds that his fingerprints were entitled to be on the Monopoly set!

The story ran in The London Evening News - this was when The Evening Standard was not London's main evening paper - for ages, with daily revelations of bags of money being found in telephone bioxes, left luggage lockers, under park benches, all sorts.

One by one the gang all got arrested. It took 8 days to catch the first, but the rest all followed sharpish. Most got 30 years, & most did it, but Biggs became the face of the Great Train Robbery because of his exploits later.

They all went to Prison before England won the World Cup, Mobile Phones had not been invented, nor had the Internet, Walkmans, MP3's, I-Pods, MSN, Teletext, Colour Telly, Freezers, Automatic Gearboxes, or Online Poker.

Amazing how things change so quickly.

I'm not sure if i have mentioned this before but I met Charlie Wilson a couple of times around 1980/81.

He was a partner in a South London spieler called Whitegates where I used to go and play poker occasionally back in the days when my main game was stripped-deck five-card stud. Charlie had a great deal of charisma although he didn't seem to talk a lot, well not to me anyhow. Tall and distinguished-looking and always wearing an expensive smart suit he somehow exuded power and control in a very quiet and low-key manner like only real bona-fide villains can without working at it in the slightest. There was never ever going to be any bad behaviour or trouble there.

I must admit that it saddened me a little when he got hit in Marbella as he was the train-robber that I knew although only slightly, and I had actually liked and respected him as a bloke.

[RED-DOG]

Anyway tikay...why do you have a lot of respect for "old style" villains? Characters of course, but still villains nonetheless

Forgive me for butting in here.

Most of the old time villains had decent morals and standards. They were honorable, they were trustworthy, and they were men of their word.

If I was in a dark alley late at night, and I had to turn my back in an old style villain or a modern "Young offender" I wouldn't have a difficult choice.
 

[bolt pp]

Anyway tikay...why do you have a lot of respect for "old style" villains? Characters of course, but still villains nonetheless

Most of the old time villains had decent morals and standards. They were honorable, they were trustworthy, and they were men of their word.

 

this

[TightEnd]

OK. Would the respect for example apply to say The Kray Twins? Or is there a level of crime/violence beyond which the moral code of the old villains and the respect held for them was superseded by the crimes committed?

[AlexMartin]

The average amount of time served for murder in this country is 14 years.

The mother of baby "P" will be eligible for parole after serving just three and a half years.

Biggs was part of a gang that stole some money and made the police look silly.

this is just incredible. In my mind stealing and murder are like mars and jupiter, how the hell they were felt to deserve spending the core of their adult lives inside is ridiculous.