Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[titaniumbean]

1 % of both ta !!

[The Camel]

10k is a lot of dough tho keith, if i never play the event and keep earning enough not to get a job ill be happy.

Put a staking thread up and you'll sell out providing you don't ask too much juice.

It's an incred event.

[Jon MW]

Odd that the BBC journo could call a cabinet member a "Jeremy Hunt" live on air and still keep his job, I guess things work differently at the beeb!

That was an isolated, unintentional slip of the tongue rather than repeated sexist comments and behaviour.

Seemed like fair comment to me, too.

Didn't he do it again when he was trying to apologise for the first incident?

Also I think tikay has mentioned before someone with a similar name where a slip of the tongue would have him sacked...

I'm not aware of James Naughtie repeating it but I may have missed it.
Andrew Marr certainly repeated it when reporting on the event.

However, I am convinced that there is a massive difference between inadvertent swearing and inculcated sexism.

lI can't remember if he did or if someone else did whilst reporting on him doing it, it was a Freudian slip though. He meant to say something 'like' the word and clarify it - but instead he repeated the same word.

As Mere says it was a mistake rather than an indication of any underlying problem - you'd have thought Sky would have a similar common sense approach, but you never know.

[Jon MW]

"Shell-shocked" was how a highly placed friend of mine described the last few days at Sky Sports.

Andy Gray & Richard Keys are almost a brand, whether you like them or not, & have been there, what, 20 years? To take the actions that Sky Sports did, & so quickly & decisively, seemed to me to show great courage on their part, but the whole of BSKYB is incredibly compliant to good working practices, & nobody can mess with that policy, nobody. To see guys like Botham, always smartly turned out on Telly, & always on message, says it all. 

Was it an over-reaction? Hell no - the decision was a no-brainer, a snap. This is 2011, times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, or pile on the cheap shots & laddish sexual innuendo in the workplace, & nobody said a word, are long gone. We don't have to agree with that, but it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company, not just BSKYB.

th

Many of us regret the loss of Gray & Keys, I do, for sure, but they must have got above themselves, because they just know it's bang out of order. Just because most of us like them, does not mean we should not accept the facts of the matter. They crossed the line once too often.  Like scammers, grimmers & the like, they only get caught the once, but invariably they are serial offenders.

What a terrible waste of two fine careers, both guys must be mortified, but they must also know that if it ever got out, they were toast. Bills have to be paid. Keys seemed to be, to my mind, quite contrite & regretful, accepting his position fully. I've not seen or heard what Andy Gray has said.

I quite hope they get fixed up elsewhere, but they are both in their 50's, & must be worth a bob or two, so I guess they'll get by. I know that Keys was absolutely in love with his job, so that'll be painful.

Great - fantastic - news story, right up there with the Icelandic ash cloud & it's effect on civil aviation. Nobody died, and a great story.

Part of the buzz of doing Live TV is the knowledge that one single word out of line & you are insta-gone. If you are even the tiniest bit racist, or sexist, or swear like a trooper, as the hundreds & thousands of studio hours mount up, & you become more relaxed, the more likely you are to reveal the real inner person. The microphone hears everything.

So, today, we (865) all got a Memo. Paraphrased, "be careful, one improper word out of line & you are a goner". Quite right too. It may happen to me soon enough, who knows, but if it does, I hope I take it on the chin & with dignity. Because that's the price, to be set against what a great job it is.

Tikay this comes across as such a sell out , corporate answer, and in my mind does you as a person no favours. What they did was just banter between fellow workmates and to be treated in any other way is just a shambles. In todays society you cant be seen to do any wrong but im sure there are 100 other exambles that could of been made

It doesn't come across as a sell out or a corporate answer to anyone who knows the truth in Tikays line, "... it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company..."

I was trying to think of the obvious example when it was being discussed on the other thread and I couldn't, but it's in Tikay's post as well - "times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, ... , are long gone" - almost every argument people use about light hearted banter and the woman in question not getting offended etc. were also always applied to this kind of thing; but I think even the densest of brains can realise you can't do this now - some just can't seem to realise the logical extension of this.

[I KNOW IT]

I'll take 2 % tikay

[redsimon]

1 % of both ta !!

+1

[faireycakes]

I would take a small percentage, something like 1or2
Ive not staked anyone before but of all the people that could be staked I believe you are wholly honest and that gets you my money.
Would be good tv for sky too, just be careful with limpers and    or whatever suits they were ;-)

[Big_D]

2% plz gramps

[Geo the Sarge]

"Shell-shocked" was how a highly placed friend of mine described the last few days at Sky Sports.

Andy Gray & Richard Keys are almost a brand, whether you like them or not, & have been there, what, 20 years? To take the actions that Sky Sports did, & so quickly & decisively, seemed to me to show great courage on their part, but the whole of BSKYB is incredibly compliant to good working practices, & nobody can mess with that policy, nobody. To see guys like Botham, always smartly turned out on Telly, & always on message, says it all. 

Was it an over-reaction? Hell no - the decision was a no-brainer, a snap. This is 2011, times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, or pile on the cheap shots & laddish sexual innuendo in the workplace, & nobody said a word, are long gone. We don't have to agree with that, but it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company, not just BSKYB.

th

Many of us regret the loss of Gray & Keys, I do, for sure, but they must have got above themselves, because they just know it's bang out of order. Just because most of us like them, does not mean we should not accept the facts of the matter. They crossed the line once too often.  Like scammers, grimmers & the like, they only get caught the once, but invariably they are serial offenders.

What a terrible waste of two fine careers, both guys must be mortified, but they must also know that if it ever got out, they were toast. Bills have to be paid. Keys seemed to be, to my mind, quite contrite & regretful, accepting his position fully. I've not seen or heard what Andy Gray has said.

I quite hope they get fixed up elsewhere, but they are both in their 50's, & must be worth a bob or two, so I guess they'll get by. I know that Keys was absolutely in love with his job, so that'll be painful.

Great - fantastic - news story, right up there with the Icelandic ash cloud & it's effect on civil aviation. Nobody died, and a great story.

Part of the buzz of doing Live TV is the knowledge that one single word out of line & you are insta-gone. If you are even the tiniest bit racist, or sexist, or swear like a trooper, as the hundreds & thousands of studio hours mount up, & you become more relaxed, the more likely you are to reveal the real inner person. The microphone hears everything.

So, today, we (865) all got a Memo. Paraphrased, "be careful, one improper word out of line & you are a goner". Quite right too. It may happen to me soon enough, who knows, but if it does, I hope I take it on the chin & with dignity. Because that's the price, to be set against what a great job it is.

Tikay this comes across as such a sell out , corporate answer, and in my mind does you as a person no favours. What they did was just banter between fellow workmates and to be treated in any other way is just a shambles. In todays society you cant be seen to do any wrong but im sure there are 100 other exambles that could of been made

It doesn't come across as a sell out or a corporate answer to anyone who knows the truth in Tikays line, "... it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company..."

I was trying to think of the obvious example when it was being discussed on the other thread and I couldn't, but it's in Tikay's post as well - "times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, ... , are long gone" - almost every argument people use about light hearted banter and the woman in question not getting offended etc. were also always applied to this kind of thing; but I think even the densest of brains can realise you can't do this now - some just can't seem to realise the logical extension of this.

This line from Tikay says it all imo

They crossed the line once too often.  Like scammers, grimmers & the like, they only get caught the once, but invariably they are serial offenders.

Geo

[AndrewT]

Back in the days when I used to commute to work, I was always amazed by the reaction of people to someone under a train:

"selfish bastard" "Oh God, how am I get to work now, I've got a meeting at 9.30" "Hope he's dead" etc etc

There's either been a tragic accident or someone has felt there life so worthless that the only solution is to end it.

Whatever has happened it is tragic and heart breaking.

A tiny inconvience is nothing in comparison with the fate of the person under that train.

Whilst this is the correct answer, I have to admit that when a one-under causes me inconvienience, part of me thinks 'what's wrong with pills and vodka'.

Oh, and blatant 'I pay the billz with my mad poker skillz' brag post.

[Ironside]

"Shell-shocked" was how a highly placed friend of mine described the last few days at Sky Sports.

Andy Gray & Richard Keys are almost a brand, whether you like them or not, & have been there, what, 20 years? To take the actions that Sky Sports did, & so quickly & decisively, seemed to me to show great courage on their part, but the whole of BSKYB is incredibly compliant to good working practices, & nobody can mess with that policy, nobody. To see guys like Botham, always smartly turned out on Telly, & always on message, says it all. 

Was it an over-reaction? Hell no - the decision was a no-brainer, a snap. This is 2011, times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, or pile on the cheap shots & laddish sexual innuendo in the workplace, & nobody said a word, are long gone. We don't have to agree with that, but it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company, not just BSKYB.

th

Many of us regret the loss of Gray & Keys, I do, for sure, but they must have got above themselves, because they just know it's bang out of order. Just because most of us like them, does not mean we should not accept the facts of the matter. They crossed the line once too often.  Like scammers, grimmers & the like, they only get caught the once, but invariably they are serial offenders.

What a terrible waste of two fine careers, both guys must be mortified, but they must also know that if it ever got out, they were toast. Bills have to be paid. Keys seemed to be, to my mind, quite contrite & regretful, accepting his position fully. I've not seen or heard what Andy Gray has said.

I quite hope they get fixed up elsewhere, but they are both in their 50's, & must be worth a bob or two, so I guess they'll get by. I know that Keys was absolutely in love with his job, so that'll be painful.

Great - fantastic - news story, right up there with the Icelandic ash cloud & it's effect on civil aviation. Nobody died, and a great story.

Part of the buzz of doing Live TV is the knowledge that one single word out of line & you are insta-gone. If you are even the tiniest bit racist, or sexist, or swear like a trooper, as the hundreds & thousands of studio hours mount up, & you become more relaxed, the more likely you are to reveal the real inner person. The microphone hears everything.

So, today, we (865) all got a Memo. Paraphrased, "be careful, one improper word out of line & you are a goner". Quite right too. It may happen to me soon enough, who knows, but if it does, I hope I take it on the chin & with dignity. Because that's the price, to be set against what a great job it is.

Tikay this comes across as such a sell out , corporate answer, and in my mind does you as a person no favours. What they did was just banter between fellow workmates and to be treated in any other way is just a shambles. In todays society you cant be seen to do any wrong but im sure there are 100 other exambles that could of been made

It doesn't come across as a sell out or a corporate answer to anyone who knows the truth in Tikays line, "... it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company..."

I was trying to think of the obvious example when it was being discussed on the other thread and I couldn't, but it's in Tikay's post as well - "times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, ... , are long gone" - almost every argument people use about light hearted banter and the woman in question not getting offended etc. were also always applied to this kind of thing; but I think even the densest of brains can realise you can't do this now - some just can't seem to realise the logical extension of this.

gone are the days of PNL when tikay could have a laugh and a joke while presenting taking the micheal out of the welsh the geotdies the brummies and all other odds and socks, all he could ever say about me was that i was from iceland or norway, BskyB told him from the off there was to be none of that, no sexism no stereotyping, turned him into a trainspotting bore sometimes but he has stuck with the rules keys/gray knew them aswell just cause the camera is off doesnt give you carte blanche to do and say what you cant on camera same workplace same rules should apply

[MANTIS01]

"Shell-shocked" was how a highly placed friend of mine described the last few days at Sky Sports.

Andy Gray & Richard Keys are almost a brand, whether you like them or not, & have been there, what, 20 years? To take the actions that Sky Sports did, & so quickly & decisively, seemed to me to show great courage on their part, but the whole of BSKYB is incredibly compliant to good working practices, & nobody can mess with that policy, nobody. To see guys like Botham, always smartly turned out on Telly, & always on message, says it all.  

Was it an over-reaction? Hell no - the decision was a no-brainer, a snap. This is 2011, times have changed, the days when blokes could pat a lady's bum, or pile on the cheap shots & laddish sexual innuendo in the workplace, & nobody said a word, are long gone. We don't have to agree with that, but it's how life in the workplace is now. Current work practices deem it gross misconduct, & everyone well knows that, & that is exactly the case in every single well-run Company, not just BSKYB.

Many of us regret the loss of Gray & Keys, I do, for sure, but they must have got above themselves, because they just know it's bang out of order. Just because most of us like them, does not mean we should not accept the facts of the matter. They crossed the line once too often.  Like scammers, grimmers & the like, they only get caught the once, but invariably they are serial offenders.

What a terrible waste of two fine careers, both guys must be mortified, but they must also know that if it ever got out, they were toast. Bills have to be paid. Keys seemed to be, to my mind, quite contrite & regretful, accepting his position fully. I've not seen or heard what Andy Gray has said.

I quite hope they get fixed up elsewhere, but they are both in their 50's, & must be worth a bob or two, so I guess they'll get by. I know that Keys was absolutely in love with his job, so that'll be painful.

Great - fantastic - news story, right up there with the Icelandic ash cloud & it's effect on civil aviation. Nobody died, and a great story.

Part of the buzz of doing Live TV is the knowledge that one single word out of line & you are insta-gone. If you are even the tiniest bit racist, or sexist, or swear like a trooper, as the hundreds & thousands of studio hours mount up, & you become more relaxed, the more likely you are to reveal the real inner person. The microphone hears everything.

So, today, we (865) all got a Memo. Paraphrased, "be careful, one improper word out of line & you are a goner". Quite right too. It may happen to me soon enough, who knows, but if it does, I hope I take it on the chin & with dignity. Because that's the price, to be set against what a great job it is.

I remember in 1997 when Lawrence Dallaglio was set up by The News of the World. He told their undercover female reporter he was a big cocaine user and had to step down as England captain in the aftermath. Turned out what he said was a stupid attempt to impress the girl and the reality was he had never touched drugs. What he uttered from his mouth wasn't the truth from his heart. I'm not saying this is comparible to the Andy Gray situation, but what I am saying is losing your career because of an irrelevant utterance is rather disproportional. We don't know how Charlotte Jackson feels about this. What if their relationship was based around having digs at each other? What if she turned around and said tuck it in? well plenty of room to do so Andy? Is she sacked for responding to the banter? What if some people on set laugh at the banter? Are they sacked? What if you are caught looking at Charlotte Jackson's booty as she bends over? Do your sexual thoughts get you sacked? Why is the floor manager not sacked for allowing that banter to go unchecked at the time? Where do you draw the line? Are words more serious than thoughts? And if nobody took the utterance seriously how is it serious?

[technolog]

I'm grappling with quite a moral dilemma.

The more I see, & watch & report on the WSOP Main Event, (as I have for 6 or 7 years straight now), the more envious I become. I love the job, adore it, but I try not to think about playing it. It's way too delicious a thought.

Can I afford $10,000? Well yes, I suppose so, depends what is meant by "afford". I have the cash, if that is "afford", but upbringing & culture tells me that $10,000 is way too much to spunk away on a game of cards, & I think I'd be mortified if I wasted that much money, & failed to cash. I think I would cash - but so does everyone who plays it, & 90% fail.

So, someone says to me a few weeks ago, "I think you could easily sell a bunch of your action, & I'd take a lump". And I know several who would, if I swallowed my pride & asked.

But here's the thing. If I'm not prepared to risk my own money, is it right to (try to) sell some of my action using other people's money? (Friends, mainly).

Somehow it does not feel right.

I've reached the position now where if I get the Sky Poker Vegas job, &, all things being equal, that appears likely, then I'll do it different this year. Instead of going out at the start of the Main, & getting right down to work, I'd go out a week or 10 days earlier, & play a bunch of Caesars/Venetian Deepies & stuff. (Assuming Sky Poker were OK with that).

I'd love to do that, love to, & it'd get the dream out of my system. I've never ever gone to Vegas to play, only to work, & it seems like a box that badly needs ticking. But not $10,000 ticking.

 

You and Tom should do a joint staking for this event.

It would sell out in hours and it would suit you both down to the ground.

And you would both have an absolute ball.

I'll take 3% of both of you.

Please do this it would be...



...no, I can't say it. It'd be dead good though. Can I have 1% of each please?

[Simon Galloway]

During my office days, I saw a massive change in what was/wasn't acceptable.  The early day stuff was way beyond legal, never mind 'inappropriate'  In the last role, email chains in particular were well understood as to what you could/couldn't do.  For example, if someone send a load of jokes on email, you were allowed to read them (under the pretence that you didn't realise the true content) but then you were expected to delete them immediately.  repeatedly opening it, forwarding, etc was just a simple "no" and it never ceased to amaze me how many people flew in the face of that rule.  Forwarding jokes to "Marketing" or "Building A" distribution lists was so stupid, yet frequently done.  A bit like volunteering to be freerolled in every pot.  A guy opposite me fwd'd on some football jokes , one of which had slight homophobic undertones.  The area chief ofc was on one of those DL's and (whilst clearly normally enjoyed reading the jokes as much as anyone else as there were 2 pages of them) was also a fairly obvious 'vagina decliner' and ofc that afternoon, I watched security clearing the desk opposite me into a black bin liner.

Regardless of how mild an offence, them's the rules today and you transgress them at your peril.

[MANTIS01]

During my office days, I saw a massive change in what was/wasn't acceptable.  The early day stuff was way beyond legal, never mind 'inappropriate'  In the last role, email chains in particular were well understood as to what you could/couldn't do.  For example, if someone send a load of jokes on email, you were allowed to read them (under the pretence that you didn't realise the true content) but then you were expected to delete them immediately.  repeatedly opening it, forwarding, etc was just a simple "no" and it never ceased to amaze me how many people flew in the face of that rule.  Forwarding jokes to "Marketing" or "Building A" distribution lists was so stupid, yet frequently done.  A bit like volunteering to be freerolled in every pot.  A guy opposite me fwd'd on some football jokes , one of which had slight homophobic undertones.  The area chief ofc was on one of those DL's and (whilst clearly normally enjoyed reading the jokes as much as anyone else as there were 2 pages of them) was also a fairly obvious 'vagina decliner' and ofc that afternoon, I watched security clearing the desk opposite me into a black bin liner.

Regardless of how mild an offence, them's the rules today and you transgress them at your peril.

So in that working environment it was generally accepted that everybody read the jokes and laughed at them. Many people forwarded them knowing they should not. The area chief was well known to open, read, and enjoy all the jokes. However, one day he reads a joke that personally offends him so he uses the rulebook to extract personal vengeance upon the perpetrator. I don't agree thems the rules and the employee should expect that result. I think the area manager abused the rules to exert his will. Very much like Murdoch screwing Gray over in this example.