Tournament Hand of the Week: August 13th

[MANTIS01]

Every fortnight I will be bringing you a hand from an on-line or live tournament I have played in. Each hand can be played in a variety of different ways so they should attract an interesting and lively debate.

At the end of the week I will post a blueprint of what my thought process was during the hand.

We go on-line for this weeks hand.....so let's take a look

The Tournament

Environment:           On-Line
Type:                       5 Table Sit & Go     
Players:                   45                           
Buy-in:                     $100 + $9
Starting Chips:         $1,500
Prize Structure:       1st $1,395 thru 7th $157.50

Remaining Players:  18
Average Chips:        $3,750
Chip Leader:            $10,200

Table 3 was broken about 10 minutes ago and we were reseated at Table 1

The Players
Tin~Tin:      $6,425 - 5th of 18 & in middle position
fruitfly22:   $2,850 - 14th of 18 & on the button
MANTIS01:  $5,675 - 6th of 18 and in the big blind

History
We have been at the table for just 2 orbits and have yet to enter a pot...same goes for fruitfly22. Tin~Tin has been quite active though. He has entered 3 pots with a raise of 3xbb on each occasion. He took 2 pots uncontested after the flop with re-raises and folded once when his continuation bet was re-raised. We are yet to see a showdown. The chip leader has over $10k and is starting to pull away from the field.

The Hand
The action is folded around to Tin~Tin who enters the pot for a raise. He makes it 400 to go. fruitfly22 calls on the button and the small blind folds. We look down in the big blind to see...

 

Not the best hand in the world but the pot stands at 1,325 and it only costs 200 more to get involved. We can't resist this sort of value so decide to make the call and go to the flop. Would you do anything other than call here?

The Flop

    

We have hit top pair so what shoud we do? Interested to hear from players who like betting out in this situation and the reasons why? Is it possible we have the best hand right now? If you do decide to bet how much will you make it? If you bet out and get re-raised what course of action will you take?

....after some deliberation we decide to check. Is checking the best play here?

Tin~Tin immediately follows through with a bet of 600. fruitfly22 folds and the action gets back to us?...Do we call, raise or fold...and what are the merits of each play? Is it possible to make any solid judgements about Tin~Tin's hand?

The pot now stands at 2,125...further action and the turn card will appear on Wednesday

[Robert HM]

OK amateur stab at an answer:

Not the best hand in the world but the pot stands at 1,325 and it only costs 200 more to get involved. We can't resist this sort of value so decide to make the call and go to the flop. Would you do anything other than call here?

From the history you can hopefully think that Tin~Tin is "at it", he certainly looks that he would play a wide range at least. fruitfly is maybe just using his positon to justify the call, though he hasn't done that so far, however the only other player who has shown interest in the pot so far is the perceivably loose Tin~Tin

"Value" suggests a call is in order and a raise would ruin that, what if you were re-raised, you've then lost the chance of seeing a cheap flop, which is why you invested a few chips in the first place.

The Flop[/color]

    

We have hit top pair so what shoud we do? Interested to hear from players who like betting out in this situation and the reasons why? Is it possible we have the best hand right now? If you do decide to bet how much will you make it? If you bet out and get re-raised what course of action will you take?

....after some deliberation we decide to check. Is checking the best play here?

You've found yourself with top pair but still a small pair and not the greatest kicker in the world, but you've still hit the flop. You use your place as first to act to define your position and make an exploratary bet but any bet in proportion to the size of the pot is going to be expensive, it's a risk but you need to find out. 800 is about half the pot and will show some strength.

Tin~Tin immediately follows through with a bet of 600. fruitfly22 folds and the action gets back to us?...Do we call, raise or fold...and what are the merits of each play? Is it possible to make any solid judgements about Tin~Tin's hand?

Here you don't know where you stand, Tin~Tin was the original raiser, is he just making a continuation bet, has he got an overpair or AQ? Checking earlier has left you guessing.

[Flea]

Depends on what you think you're table image is, if it's fairly tight and if you don't think tin-tin has an over-pair then a reasonable re-raise (1500 say) should take the pot down - but if you're not sure then Fold (although having already called a raise pre-flop and hit top pair why call original raise if not prepared to play top-pair).

At this stage I think there's no point just calling unless you had top set.

The only way a call is appropriate is if you want to risk an over-card coming down with the premise that you're prepared to fold to any further bet for the chance to maybe improve your current hand and think you can afford to give-away the 600 chips to call the current bet.

But the above is just my humble opinion and no doubt others will disagree.

[AdamG]

check raise to 2000. fold to any reraise.

[Graham C]

I think calling the preflop min raise is ok, I like to call min raises from the BB as you are pretty much getting the odds with reasonable cards and 86 is semi reasonable and likely to make you some nice chips if you hit the flop.

I don't mind the check either.  Top pair but a really weak kicker.  The problem I'd have is that whilst Tin Tin may have been on the steal preflop, he may well have hit with his rubbish here but after he's stuck the continuation bet in, I'd repop him to around  1800 and see what he does.   If he raises, I'm out of there, if he folds, happy days.   I don't really want to be seeing another card here as it's likely to be an over card then we really don't know where we are at so I think calling is out.
 

[doubleup]

First think I notice is that he has min raised here, but had been raising 3x previously, does that mean he is looking for action?  The min raise is sometimes a small pair or connectors.

Calling raise is pretty much mandatory, I don't like it much, but the opportunity of hitting big in a 3-way pot is too good too pass up.

The flop I just call.  at this point I think I am either way behind (to an overpair or even a set) or he has overcards - so I'll give him his free card, if I raise I have to fold to an allin. so I would rather use the chips on the turn if required.  I'm actually thinking that I could even use those chips to bluff the turn if a club lands.  There actually might be an argument for folding the flop, it is often a mistake to see a flop to hit big and then carry on when you hit a weak pair, particularly oop -not an argument that finds favour with Mantis obv, or there wouldn't be anything more to discuss

[TightEnd]

Call for value pre-flop

I flop top pair crap kicker, I'd bet out and fold to a raise against TAGS. Against this opponent I would check call and revaluate on the turn...potentially leading out on a scare card such as a club, but again hating any action

[AlexMartin]

Deffo call pre.

You basically want to find out if your hand is good, in as cheap a way as possible. Leading out for 1k into the 1500 pot gives you the same (better?) information than a reasonable check raise which would have to be larger to get the same quality of information. I dont want to play a big pot for a lot of chips here, if we get raised we fold.

[snoopy1239]

Would you do anything other than call here?

No, I'd call too. I can't resist for 200 and against a stack that's bigger than mine.

We have hit top pair so what should we do?

I like to mix it up, sometimes I'd bet out and hope I'd take it down there and then, but against an aggressive player who has been re-raising, I'd opt to check and either give it up to his inevitable continuation bet or try a cheeky check-raise - he did fold to this move before, so we should find out whether we're ahead or not whilst also seeing what fruitfly22 does before we invest any chips. Looking at the board though, I'd let this one go. You're out of position and destined to face not only an overcard on the Turn but another bet from Tin Tin. Plus, he may think we have a flush draw and call anyhow. Wait for a better opportunity I say.

[action man]

check raise to 2000. fold to any reraise.

yep, was thinking the same, i also call preflop.

[iorek]

The 200 is an easy call but with a note about the alarming minimum raise.

The flop looks like a BB special and a 800 bet out may have answered the question about the minimum raise. I like the check as now you've lost one player but only facing a 600 bet coupled with the preflop raise smells like a monster.

Options

Calling - to hit an eight or a six and maybe not the  is a tad too thin and given that an eight would end Tin~Tins donation to the pot unless he has you out kicked (hey don't scoff I'm sure it's happened) calling is a no go.

Raising - Another 1200 or all in.
1200 and he passes perfect.
1200 and he calls and one of the 29 scare cards came on the turn, gulp and 14 of the remaining 18 are useless to us, less than perfect.
All in, gutsy and a winner if Tin~Tin is holding  or the like. This is $100 comp and sure there are plenty of mugs that stumble into them but usually the standard of play is better and also there is no reason to think Tin~Tin had his chips gifted to him (or her, sigh, hate being PC) So do I think 1200 will win the pot there and then, no. Do I want to put all my chips in the middle with a pair of eights, all be it top pair and a six kicker, no.

This is a pass for me. With your chips, the blinds, position in the comp etc. there will be better spots

[snoopy1239]

The 200 is an easy call but with a note about the alarming minimum raise.

The flop looks like a BB special and a 800 bet out may have answered the question about the minimum raise. I like the check as now you've lost one player but only facing a 600 bet coupled with the preflop raise smells like a monster.

Options

Calling - to hit an eight or a six and maybe not the  is a tad too thin and given that an eight would end Tin~Tins donation to the pot unless he has you out kicked (hey don't scoff I'm sure it's happened) calling is a no go.

Raising - Another 1200 or all in.
1200 and he passes perfect.
1200 and he calls and one of the 29 scare cards came on the turn, gulp and 14 of the remaining 18 are useless to us, less than perfect.
All in, gutsy and a winner if Tin~Tin is holding  or the like. This is $100 comp and sure there are plenty of mugs that stumble into them but usually the standard of play is better and also there is no reason to think Tin~Tin had his chips gifted to him (or her, sigh, hate being PC) So do I think 1200 will win the pot there and then, no. Do I want to put all my chips in the middle with a pair of eights, all be it top pair and a six kicker, no.

This is a pass for me. With your chips, the blinds, position in the comp etc. there will be better spots

Nice one, iorek. 

[MANTIS01]

A great variety of interesting posts thus far so keep them coming...

Part II
We decide to call Tin~Tin's bet of 600 and go to the turn with 2,725 chips in the pot.

The Turn
The turn card is peeled off and it is...

 

making a board of

      

The turn card didn't improve our hand but then again it isn't a scare card for either player. You are first to act so what is your play? Do you bet out now in the hope of wrestling the pot away from Tin~Tin and if so how much do you bet? Do you check with the intention of check-raising, folding or calling?

After some consideration we decide to check.

Tin~Tin immediately throws in another bet of 1,200. What do we make of this bet and what should we do? Is this decision time in the hand? Is this bet begging to be re-raised and should we take the bait or should we just fold and wait for a better spot? Do we have any further clues about the strength of Tin~Tin's hand?

Further action and the all important river card will appear on Friday.

[neeko]

on the turn:

Has the 2 improved his hand? - I am going with no - no more than it helped me anyway.

Where am i chip wise? - i had 5.6k - 0.4k - 0.6k = 4.6k (still 1k over average - fold now and we are still ahead)

If i call now i drop below avg and will almost certainly face a bet on the river.

Two options as i see it fold or allin.

What does he have? - He bet (min!!!), c-bet (standard), turn bet. Is he (she ) good enough to keep firing with only over cards? - limited info but have to assume yes. (lets give this 50% prob), over pair - possible (say 20%), some sort of sc's (87 {cooler} 45,3c5c etc (30%).

Given that thought process I should go all in as i think i am ahead - but i am too week and I would stick my tail between my legs, fold and be happy with my above avg chip stack. (and regret not putting an info raise in earlier)

[doubleup]

This is the crunch moment of this hand.  Raising will put us out of the comp if we're wrong.  Folding will be weak but the turn card didn't really provide any opportunities .  The case for calling only really rests on whether we want to call a river bet.  If our opponent is betting overs, he's prob going to fire on the river as well, so calling with the intention of calling the river is better than raising. So I go for the call and hate to see an ace on the river, as I will prob have to bluff it.