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Author Topic: Tournament Hand of the Week: August 27th  (Read 3506 times)
MANTIS01
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« on: August 26, 2007, 11:21:31 PM »

This week we are going to The Venetian in Las Vegas...it's our annual holiday to the mecca of poker and winning this tournament is going to get the trip off to a great start.

So lets take a look...

The Tournament

Environment:           Live Game
Type:                       Multi-Table Freezeout   
Players:                    76                           
Buy-in:                      $550
Starting Chips:         $10,000
Prize Pool:                 $41,800
Blinds:                       $800/$1600 with $200 ante
Remaining Players:   9
Average Chips:        $84,500
Chip Leader:            $125,000

We are at the final table of this tournament and we have just busted the shortest stack so 9 players remain...we have been playing for 6 hours. This hand involves a clash between the 3 chip leaders.

History

The standard in this tournament has been mind-boggling at times. We have been shocked by the poor play of some of the participants. An unimproved A-K seems to be the Holy Grail of poker hands for many of the tourists. However, there are also some solid professionals playing including S Dannenmann, runner-up in the 2005 WSOP Main Event.

Our two opponents in this hand are UTG, a sweet and attractive young lady from Toronto...we will call her "Maple Syrup". We shared a table with Maple Syrup earlier in the tournament. She check-called all the way to win a huge pot after flopping quads and won another big pot...again check-calling all the way with an unimproved A-6 of diamonds?? She seems to have no set strategy but rarely takes the lead and the diverse range of hands she has shown make her incredibly difficult to read.

In middle position we have a typical loudmouth American table captain. Although we have not played at his table we have heard him loud and clear throughout. He commentates relentlessly whether he is in the hand or not. He clearly believes he is the best player and is not afraid to let that point be known, he is the current chip leader and everyone at the table knows it!! He is the spitting image of a character out of the sitcom Friends...so we will call him "Chandler".

The Players
Chandler:          $125,000  1st of 9 and in middle position
Maple Syrup:     $112,000  2nd of 9 and UTG
Mantis01:          $110,000  3rd of 9 and on the button

The Hand

Maple Syrup raises to $3,200. It gets to Chandler who makes a big show of how strong his hand is but states that he will cut Maple Syrup a break and only call....but if anyone raises behind he is going all-in and puts his chips on the line to demonstrate this. It gets to us on the button and we look down to see....

  

We have a good drawing hand with position...there is $10,600 in the pot and it costs us $3,200 to call. Do you call here and if you do what are your expectations with this hand? Would raising with position be a better play considering Chandler has hammed up his hand? Would he put you on a monster if you did this and is it worth the risk?

We decide to call and both blinds fold (no appreciation of value here)....the pot now stands at $13,800

The Flop

    

What do you think of this flop? Is it good for us?

Maple Syrup quietly pushes $5,000 over the line. Can we read anything from the size of the bet? It gets to Chandler who gets up and starts pacing about?? He returns to the table before declaring she is making him nervous now and so will only call. The action gets to us so what should we do? Is raising, calling or folding the optimum play here? Can we make any real judgements about the strength of the hands out there and if we raise how do we proceed if either of our two opponents re-raise?

The pot now stands at $23,800....further action and the turn card will appear on Wednesday
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 01:28:15 AM by MANTIS01 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 12:43:44 AM »

Pre flop you have to give Maple Syrup respect for a hand, a passive raising from UTG. Chandler could conceivably be calling with a wide range - have you seen him play Ax? I'm thinking a pair here, though - he knows that Maple must be strong, thinks he's stronger, and figures he might not get too many callers because of Maple's image. He might conceivably be playing a drawing hand, hoping to hit the flop big, and giving the big speech so he doesn't need to lay down to a reraise, but from middle position it's more unlikely.

I don't re-raise here, even with position, because I don't think you'll knock Maple Syrup off. If she re-raises you strongly you'd have to think about getting out. If Chandler has woken up with a real hand, is playing it cute, and reraises, you're done. If Maple Syrup just calls, Chandler will be priced in the for the call. Re-raise is too risky, you're getting decent odds, and given Maple's previous post flop action, you might well get paid off if you hit the flop big. Flat call.

I think you have to like the flop. You might choose to like the action before it gets to you even more. By now I'm putting Maple on an overpair - it's a rainbow flop and a passive is less likely to bet enough to deny other players proper drawing odds. With a hand of real strength or a weak hand, as we've seen, she's more likely to check this flop. What does Chandler have? Normally I'd be worried about the big speech post-flop, but if he's been acting up all tournament maybe that means nothing. A slight concern would be a pair of pocket eights (or, more improbably, nines). That's a possible holding for him. If he's loose pre flop he might be playing A9. But actually I might be more likely to put him on a premium pocket playing trappily so he can show us how clever he is later.

I don't think a jack or ten on the turn will help you, so it appears you've effectively got 8 outs and a backdoor flush draw. You're only getting 4.8-1 on your money, but with Maple something of a calling station and Chandler possibly holding a biggie, your implied odds are potentially huge. There is no point in re-raising - you're not ahead here and, worse, you're unlikely to be able to run a stone cold bluff past these two if you don't hit. So it's a flat call for me.

Just call me Mr Passive Smiley





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boldie
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 08:08:13 AM »

I hate the call pre-flop..a min raise from a weak player and a loud "I got something and am not afraid to stick all my chips in the middle" from the table moron. You've got nothing here (pre-flop)..absolutely F all...

On the flop there's no point in raising here as neither of the players are likely to fold. A 10 or J won't help you and therefore you're hoping to hit a Q or 7. for 5k You have to call here, especially with the implied odds you're getting against players like this..but there is absolutely no point in raising here.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 11:12:59 AM »

im calling to control the pot size and have position on both on the turn. This could be the critical hand.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 11:48:47 AM »

Got to call pre-flop getting those odds....Chandler's ego/over-confidence could be the key to you winning a big pot here if you flop big in position especially if you can bust a possible overpair UTG


On the flop well you've got the draw you call pre-flop to get (not interested in top pair with J10, merely made two pair and straight possibilities)

Raising here in position could buy you a free card on the turn to improve on the river against UTG alone, but reading what Chandler would do if you do raise isn't straightforward...would appear to me that he's the type thats full of bull but this well placed in a comp in these circumstances I'd probably control the pot and re-assess on the turn

Of course the paired board is a worry for down the line, but mixing with the only two bigger stacks than you here by raising on the flop strikes me as building a pot unneccesarily at this stage..as I don't think a miss and a bluff on the turn following through necessarily gets through

Call.
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 01:13:34 PM »

Agree with the call pf as stacks are deep enough and C's bluster will prob stop anyone getting frisky in the blinds.  Raising isn't a great idea as MS has shown calling station tendancies.

The flop is a bit problematic.  I really don't like drawing on a paired board because it is difficult to get all the chips in when you hit as the other players must worry about you having a 9, but in this case if MS is such a calling station we might take some chips from her.  The other problem with paired boards is that occasionally we hit and are still behind e.g. MS holding QQ.

Interesting that C appears to be entirely ignoring you and lavishing all his attention on MS, I wonder if this will change if you call the flop.

My standard plan here would be to call with a view to bluffing the turn if I miss, but I really don't know if this will work here.  Let's say MS checks a rag turn and C bets.  A raise here is going to get C's full attention if MS folds and if he senses any weakness.... 

I'll call the flop bet, but I would really like to have some idea about what they think I have when I call - hopefully C will tell me.

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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 03:34:03 PM »

call preflop against these two players as it seems you could get paid off handsomely if u catch a monster, raising the flop would be a huge mistake here as you may not get to see the turn card if one of them pushes. Also you want to hit your hand and then extract some chips. Same therory applies to preflop, plenty deep enough to take a flop in pos with this hand against these two players. Call on the turn. If C and M are not on made hands or are weary about the strength of yours then they may check to you on the turn. You can then choose to peel off another card or have a stab at the pot, all the time taking in reactions from the lady and the tellbox.

Action: preflop: CALL
flop : CALL
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snoopy1239
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2007, 04:45:41 PM »

Do you call here and if you do what are your expectations with this hand?

I'm happy to see a flop here without risking Chandler being true to his word. We haven't played with him yet, so it's hard to decipher if he would fold to a raise. Also, we don't want to risk being re-raised by Maple Syrup and being forced to fold what is an attractive starting hand.

Would raising with position be a better play considering Chandler has hammed up his hand?

It's more about our position here and seeing what the other two players do. If they both check, then it may be worth taking a stab at it. Plus, we have a creative hand that can hit a nice flop against a big overpair. No need to get too busy here pre-flop.

Would he put you on a monster if you did this and is it worth the risk?


He might put us on a monster due to his speech, but he might also call anyhow. It doesn't really matter though, we're more worried about Maple Syrup.

What do you think of this flop? Is it good for us?

It's not a bad flop. It depends on what the other two players do. If it checks around, we have the option of taking a free card.

Maple Syrup quietly pushes $5,000 over the line. Can we read anything from the size of the bet?

Seeing that passive inexperienced players don't know how to bet legitamtely, it's difficult to tell whether she's betting an overpair or betting small because she feels inclined to do so with A-K, even though it's missed. Judging by her calling station ways, though, I'd say she has the overpair, especially as she's raising pre-flop from under the gun.

It gets to Chandler who gets up and starts pacing about?? He returns to the table before declaring she is making him nervous now and so will only call. The action gets to us so what should we do? Is raising, calling or folding the optimum play here? Can we make any real judgements about the strength of the hands out there and if we raise how do we proceed if either of our two opponents re-raise?

We want to bust someone here so must assume Maple Syrup she has the overpair. There's no point in semi-bluffing, because she'll probably call us down with Ace high, which beats our hand anyhow. Also, Chandler could be hamming it up with a 9, so if we semi-bluff and he raises, we'll have to fold and lose the chance of a free card. I'd flat call and pray for a straight. We only want to beef up the pot in this situation when we've actually made our hand.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 04:48:54 PM by snoopy1239 » Logged
MANTIS01
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 02:38:25 AM »

Part II

We opt to flat call the $5,000 flop bet so the pot now stands at $28,800 and we go to the turn....

The Turn

The turn card hits the deck and it is the

 

The board now reads

      

We are watching Maple Syrup closely...she hesitates...looks like she's going to bet and then reconsiders before checking. Chandler checks almost instantly and says nothing.

So the action gets to us....what should we do?

Is checking a good idea to conceal the draw we have just completed? Or should we bet? If we bet how much do YOU suggest? Do you think that considering it is early in our holiday and a good payday will make for a really enjoyable week we should just push all-in and finish this hand now?....remember this pot will give us the chip lead. Does the fact that it is unlikely both players will fold influence the amount you choose to bet? Are you looking to pot-build or alternatively do you think we are already behind?

We decide to bet....and after cutting down $15,000 in chips we slide them across the line. What do you think of this bet?

Maple Syrup quickly reaches for her chips and announces "call". It gets to Chandler and he demands..."Why are you trying to steal my pot with A-10...if Maple Syrup hadn't called I would've set you all-in!" He counts out his chips...looks at me...looks at Maple and calls. What is going on here? Can you put either of our opponents on a hand?

What sort of card are we hoping for on the river and will you call an all-in should it come to it. How confident do you feel?

The pot now stands at a whopping $73,800 going to the river and we have a remaining stack of $86,800....

Further action and the all important river card to come on Friday.
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2007, 08:05:40 AM »

I don't think that, before you bet, you can think you're behind, although you might choose to worry that you might be. It's difficult, this, because there are a number of scare cards on the river that would force you to re-evaluate. I wouldn't be wildly worried about a diamond, but I'd be worried about a 7 or 8 coming, because Chandler might well have a 9. I also wouldn't be too keen on a Q, K or A appearing, because that would fit any of Maple's hands.

I've definitely got Maple on an overpair and I think she is going to check call all the way, unless you overbet the pot, and maybe even then. At this point, with Chandler's check ... well. I'm thinking a single 9 has to lead out here even if he doesn't know Maple's tendencies.

I'm all for building the pot, but I don't want to make it too cheap for Chandler. Maple isn't going to go away. I'm putting in a higher bet than 15k. I'm going to make it pot sized. I want Maple to call and, really, I would prefer Chandler to fold, although if Maple calls with odds of over 3-1 he might choose not to go anywhere. If they both fold, I won't be TOO unhappy. I guess the value of putting in only 15k means that it makes it easier to get away if a scare card does come on the river.

After you've put the 15k in, Maple's call is consistent. Chandler's call - well, it might be a scared call, but it might also be a boat or even quads. I don't put him on a single 9 with an overcard to the board any more. I really don't like his little speech here - that "oh, I know you're drawing but I'm not going to raise the pot anyway because I'm weak" thing injects fear into my spine.

Whether or not you call an all-in on the river rather depends on who it comes from, what the action is before the all-in, and what card hits. But by now I'm really quite worried that Chandler has us beat, and I'm hoping for a lack of action on the river.






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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2007, 11:10:20 AM »

perfect size bet imo. was thinking 15k. I hope for a brick on the river, and call most bets, probably even an all in, if checked im betting between 35-50k to pick up a caller.
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2007, 08:43:46 PM »


What the fk is C on about?  He cannot honestly believe that anyone called the flop with AT. I can only assume that he has an overpair prob KK and is playing ultra weak.  MS could have a wide range, but prob Ax, overpair most likely.

I would have bet a little more, 25k maybe mostly because I might feel obliged to check an overcard turn and I'd like to get paid now.
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snoopy1239
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2007, 06:48:18 AM »

Sounds like Chandler might have made his hand here, perhaps a full house with Pocket Sevens. However, I can't be sure enough to check, so would bet around 10-15k. Maple is likely to have an overpair, so we need to get another bet out of her before one of those many scare cards hit.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 06:51:37 AM by snoopy1239 » Logged
TightEnd
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2007, 04:00:15 PM »

Is there not a case for an all-in here? You might get called by the overpair UTG....
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2007, 06:18:42 PM »

Posted by: TightEnd
Quote
Is there not a case for an all-in here? You might get called by the overpair UTG....

That's a fair point Tighty. But does the paired board prevent such a bold move?
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