Tournament Hand of the Week: September 10th

[MANTIS01]

This week we are much closer to home with a visit to exotic Walsall for the Midlands Meltdown. The Main Event took place in June of this year and we got our seat for the bargain price of £15....happy days!

So lets take a look...

The Tournament

Environment:           Live Game
Type:                        Multi-Table Double-Chance Freezeout   
Players:                    98                           
Buy-in:                      £1,000
Starting Chips:          7,500 + 7,500
Prize Pool:                 £98,000
Blinds:                        25/50
Remaining Players:   98

We are still playing the first level of this tournament and the mood at the table is quite cagey. Just a couple of quick strategy questions before we get under way with the hand....In these big double-chance affairs at what stage do YOU choose to take the reload and what are the reasons for your choice? Secondly, what sort of mentality do you bring to the table? Do you want to sit back and get a feel for the players or do you prefer to come out firing when the mood is cagey like this?

History & Players

We are only 15 minutes into this event and therefore the information we have on our opponents is negligible. This is very different from the Vegas hand last time. In Vegas we were at the final table and had a fair idea about how our opponents played, but here we are completely in the dark. How much does the lack of information affect your own particular decision making? Are you far more cautious or doesn't it worry you that much?

Blue Cap: 7,500 & in the cut-off (was wearing a blue cap)
Mantis:    7,425 & in the sb
Ray-Ban:  7,450 & in the bb (was wearing...you get the picture)

The Hand

The action is folded around to Blue Cap who raises it to 250 from the cut-off. The button folds and when it reaches us in the sb we look down to see an attractive looking....

  

So the next early doors strategy question is this. With the safety net of the double-chance do you re-raise here in order to establish some ground rules and also because you are mindful of your positional disadvantage? Or alternatively do you think the equity in the pot is so low that taking the chance of hitting your hand hard and getting paid off is a better strategy?

On this occasion we decide to call the additional 225 and Ray-Ban also completes the bet. So we go to the flop with 750 chips in the pot.

The Flop

    

Now that the flop has arrived a seemingly good A high rainbow how do you feel and what is your plan? Do you bet out and if so do you stand a re-raise? Or feeling confident do you check to trap here and play it out a different way...how much value do you put on tp Jack kicker?

We check at this time and so does Ray-Ban....Blue Cap fires out 500 into the middle. So now what is your play? Do you flat-call or re-raise and what is the philosophy behind your decision?

[pswnio]

Oooh, another Mantis special.

In most instances I take the reload at the very beginning. I don't want to miss out on extra chips if I end up with a monster against someone who has increased his chipstack early.

My strategy in the initial stages is smallball poker. I don't want to get involved in massive pots unless I have a massive hand. I am going to stay away from dodgy hands like AJ . I'll be playing suited connectors if I can see a flop cheaply, which may be possible in the early stages, and I'll also be playing medium pocket pairs as cheaply as possible, hoping to get lucky and hit a set. But most of the time I'm not going to be playing my cards, I'm going to be playing position on what will hopefully be a tight table, chipping away at small pots. If it's a cagey affair, I'm not going to pick up much information early doors just by sitting back and watching, and trying to steal small pots can be a cheap way of picking up information quickly as well as building your stack. If you get looked up, it hasn't cost you much.

Lack of knowledge of other players simply means that I can't afford to get involved in making big decisions on marginal hands. It doesn't affect my strategy of getting in and taking small pots. If I meet resistance, I need to rethink, but I'm not going to sit back, wait for a pre-flop monster, and then only take the blinds because I've appeared tight.

"With the safety net of the double-chance do you re-raise here?" This is partially why I take the top-up initially. I do not want to change my game because there is a "safety net". That way ruin lies.

I dislike AJ. Strongly. I dislike it even more strongly out of position. And I do not want to build a big pot with it, particularly pre flop. So no raise for me. This is not a hand to establish rules with. I might even countenance throwing it away here. If you don't hit the flop hard, you can't play it hard. Let's say an ace and two mediums and two spades come down. If you bet out, and meet resistance, you have no idea where you are given that you have no info on your opponents. He could be on AK, he could be drawing. If you don't hit an ace or a jack or two spades you're probably going to end up laying it down.

Assuming that we call and we hit the ace ... I can't check raise this because that's going to build the pot too much, and if the raise is called I'm not confident enough to fire the turn. I really want to take this down right now. I bet 500. If I'm raised, I'm done. If I'm flat called then have to reassess on the turn.

I can't really answer the last question. The last question should be answered before you decide to check and since I wouldn't play the hand this way, it's difficult... but I'm not confident. A check call is ok I guess and should have him asking questions. I probably then check the turn hoping for a check behind and fire out a blocker on the river.

[kinboshi]

In these situations, a check-raise can often be a good defensive move.  If we bet out, and then are subsequently raised (or re-raised for byronkincaid ), we're most probably going to be throwing our hand away - or at least be in a difficult situation.

The check-raise puts pressure on our opponent who could have a big hand, but could also be 'at it' and trying to take the pot away from us. 

Of course, check-folding at this stage isn't disastrous either.  But I think you'd be missing an opportunity to flex your muscles a bit.  I now await for the decent tourney players to rip my thinking to shreds...

[AndrewT]

With the above cards, the main reason to play the hand pre-flop is the flush draw. If you hit your ace with a couple of hearts, or the second heart comes on the turn, it gives you a bit more muscle to push people around.

A dry flop like this out of position is only really going to give you tough decisions at every stage (which is why I assume Mantis has picked it for this week's hand). With no information on my opponents, I'm minded to check-fold. With more info on the other guys I'd also consider a check-raise if blue-cap cont bets.

This is why AJ is such a pain in the arse OOP.

[daviebhoy]

In these big double-chance affairs at what stage do YOU choose to take the reload and what are the reasons for your choice? Secondly, what sort of mentality do you bring to the table? Do you want to sit back and get a feel for the players or do you prefer to come out firing when the mood is cagey like this?

I like to wait until I feel like I need the chips depending upon how things go. I am hoping not to need them for while the blinds are low and my stack is steadily increasing.

How much does the lack of information affect your own particular decision making? Are you far more cautious or doesn't it worry you that much?

It simplifies the decision making a lot. Just act as you would normally in a particular situation against random players. Once you gain info on players modify accordingly.

With the safety net of the double-chance do you re-raise here in order to establish some ground rules and also because you are mindful of your positional disadvantage? Or alternatively do you think the equity in the pot is so low that taking the chance of hitting your hand hard and getting paid off is a better strategy?

I think I toss my cards away as I don't want to be calling a raise OOP with AJs this early in a tournament and I think I can find better spots.

Now that the flop has arrived a seemingly good A high rainbow how do you feel and what is your plan? Do you bet out and if so do you stand a re-raise? Or feeling confident do you check to trap here and play it out a different way...how much value do you put on tp Jack kicker?

Now that you have called this flop I am hoping my opponent doesn't have AK, AQ, A7 or A2. I'd be surprised if he raised with 77 and shocked if he raised with 22. There is no flush and no straight so you have to think its good but I don't want to stack off with this hand either.

We check at this time and so does Ray-Ban....Blue Cap fires out 500 into the middle. So now what is your play? Do you flat-call or re-raise and what is the philosophy behind your decision?

I check-raise hoping to take the pot down there and then. If he re-raises I'm throwing it away curseing myself for get involved with AJ this early on OOP and I'm mibbe thinking about reloading soon if I continue to get involved in tough spots like that :-)

If he calls then we re-assess things on the turn.

[iorek]

If I was on the table can I still post?

[MANTIS01]

Lol...Of course you can Marcus. Here you go...A little bit later UTG raises...I flat call in UTG+1 with K-K hoping somebody squeezes...you pick up Q-Q in UTG+2 what do you do??

[CrestOfaWave]

Lol...Of course you can Marcus. Here you go...A little bit later UTG raises...I flat call in UTG+1 with K-K hoping somebody squeezes...you pick up Q-Q in UTG+2 what do you do??

QQ you have to raise IMO and see if anyone calls or re raises you. Certainly not limping with QQ in earlyish position when blinds so low.

I probably wouldnt reload early but would look to double up by playing quite aggressive then reloading if the strategy backfires.


ps I have folded AJ plenty of times to a reraise in your scenario above early in a tournament - particularly when texture of flop doesnt help you with flush draws - effectively you are playing top pair 3rd best kicker.

[doubleup]

As far as taking chips are concerned, the factors that come into play for me are the level of the blinds in relation to my stack and the standard of the opposition.  If I had a setback with the first stack and got to the 15-20 bb level, I prob wouldn't take my other half as I'd look for a doubling up opportunity against a busy player.  Otherwise I wouldn't want to drop below the 40bb level.  If a very poor player had a big stack I would take as well to have the best chance to get their chips.

As far as the hand is concerned, I'm folding AJ all the time here against unknowns. vs any competent player you have to get v lucky to win a sizeable pot with AJ.

As far as the flop is concerned checkraising is bad - you have no idea if you are value betting or bluffing.  Betting out and check calling much the same as no more of my money is going in on the turn.

[iorek]

Never you mind what I'd do with QQ after listening to Dave Colclough's CDs.

I actually remember this hand vividly and am therefore disqualifying myself. I will of course be reading all of the posts and theories for optimal play with great interest.

When to take your double chance?

Personally I don't take it until I have to, it's a safety net and I use it as such. If I get a double though early on and miss a few extra chips it's still a glass is half full situation for me. Plus I may not have got the double through if I'd got more chips or if I was playing for my tournament life. There are a lot of players who like to go big or go home Lucy is the stand out example that I've seen in my short time playing live. That's not how I like to play, if I life long enough to win as much as Lucy has maybe I could make an argument for it. But then again if we all played the same way the game would get tired pretty quick.   

[AlexMartin]

Reload str8 away, i want everyone covered.

Erm, i dont mind flat calling pre with this hand, im not rr because im oop with trash.

Im betting out on the flop 1/2 pot. I detest cc as being the weakest ugliest play in the world.

[tikay]

Reload early? It depends on what the rest of the table do. If 3 or 4 of them do, I will, if none do, I won't.

A-J OOP? At this stage, BIN, quick. Even if we are establishing "rules", this will only serve to advertise negatively.

Later in the comp, same hand, same pos - BIN.

I'm only playing this hand OOP when it gets to the push stage.

Early doors, I'm gonna be Sponge Bob, soaking up info, watching tricks, see who's dancing, where we gonna get our chips from, who can be pushed around, who's the Albert who can't Pass. Once we done that, we can get started. Like, 2 hours in.

[AlexMartin]

Reload early? It depends on what the rest of the table do. If 3 or 4 of them do, I will, if none do, I won't.

A-J OOP? At this stage, BIN, quick. Even if we are establishing "rules", this will only serve to advertise negatively.

Later in the comp, same hand, same pos - BIN.

I'm only playing this hand OOP when it gets to the push stage.

Early doors, I'm gonna be Sponge Bob, soaking up info, watching tricks, see who's dancing, where we gonna get our chips from, who can be pushed around, who's the Albert who can't Pass. Once we done that, we can get started. Like, 2 hours in.

Finally found out his gameplan.

[MANTIS01]

To mix things up a bit this week I am going to post my thoughts on each street rather than wait until the end.

As always they are only my theories on how I approached the hand rather than my recommendations for how you should play it and as ever all comments are appreciated. The turn card and further action will follow at the end....

General tournament theory and reloading: Personally, I don't like taking the second set straight away. The luxury of playing with a safety net and knowing that every decision will not be for my tournament life is something I enjoy...it gives me a certain freedom. At the moment my stack is competitive and that is sufficient for me. If my stack becomes uncompetitive then that will prompt me to reload.

In tournament play you usually find that one or two of the players at the table have a hot seat. They make chips with ease right from the get go, everything goes right for them and they hit flops for fun....and sometimes that person is you. With this in mind I like to use my first 2k or so to explore this possibility.

That said it is important to not be afraid to give a little action when it's cheap...just to see if hitting flops is on the agenda tonight. If I kick off only playing ABC or best behaviour poker then I may miss opportunities to get lucky. If I leak 2k with this strategy then I may well take the reload and revert to grinding until pots start coming my way.

In this example I pickup a suited A-J in the sb. This hand is not a monster and I'm oop so I'm not jumping for joy with it. But it does fit the criteria. Playing this hand for 225 chips is cheap and will get my gambling mechanism oiled-up from the start. As quite a tight player I hate freezing when the play is cagey. So let's give Blue-Cap a bit of action....and see what happens. This call is a loosing long-run play but I am not playing cash and tournaments aren't a long-run deal...let's see if it does the job today. Later on when the blinds are more juicy I muck or re-raise...I wouldn't dream of calling.

Preferred action on the flop: These are my choices and this is what I think of each one....

1. BETTING OUT - Never been a fan of this play for a number of reasons. a) My hand is vulnerable and I want to keep the size of the pot small at this stage...so why would I voluntarily inject chips into it myself? b) If I bet out I would expect a raise from the original raiser. If I was Blue-Cap I raise a sb feeler bet all day long e.g. representing A-K...and I would then have to fold. c) If Blue-Cap folds I have gambled to hit a flop...hit a flop...and made nothing. This makes no sense. d) If he calls I am lost on the turn.

2. CHECK-RAISING - All the same problems exist as before only they are now magnified. I am voluntarily putting MORE chips into the pot, if I get re-raised I have to fold, I only scare away hands I am beating right now and if he calls I am in a world of pain on the turn not knowing what to do or where I stand.

3. CHECK-CALLING - This is the play I choose. When I check I am interested to see how Blue-Cap acts and what sort of bet he is going to put in. In this example he "fires" 500 chips into a 750 chip pot. This is the first bit of info I get and I am looking to try and start putting him on a hand. If he has A-K or better then the flop is a real peach for him with no draws of any kind. His two customers are the flat-calling blinds who are oop and haven't shown any strength so I think this bet is a little on the heavy side of average for that holding. Is he trying to entice us in or take the pot now with this bet? I think the bet is a little strong so feel that I have a fairish chance of being ahead. Calling keeps the pot small, allows me to see how he acts on the turn in relation to this flop bet and of course the call on a non-drawing board may well slow him down if he's stealing, allowing me to value bet the river...of course I could also improve as well.

Although I am oop my post flop play is pretty good and it is not as if I am devoid of any information. I was always checking here unless I hit 2-pair or better and I am putting the onus on the original raiser to convince me he has me beat. His bet does not convince me of that but I am not getting carried away either because at this stage I have a little inclination and no more.

So lets go to the turn....

Part II

I opt to call Blue-Cap's bet of 500 and Ray-Ban folds....so we go to the turn heads-up with 1,750 chips in the pot

The Turn

The turn card falls and it is the

 

The board now reads

      

I dwell up for a second and then check to Blue-Cap. Is this the play you would make or would you be inclined to bet out instead?

Blue-Cap starts taking his time and seems a bit indecisive about his bet. Finally he puts in 900 chips and the action is back to us. What do we do now and what are the reasons for our decision? Do you have a plan for the river?

My thoughts, further action and the river card will appear on Friday

[doubleup]

Fold for me unless I have a great read on the player.  I wouldn't have played this hand in the first place and despite the attraction of having trips with a goodish kicker I give my opponent credit for continuing to bet.

Re your thoughts on this hand - this is a gross play at this stage in the tournament and you are always going to be hoping you have the best hand.  I dont mind check calling a rag flop - but check calling when your hand is either a set or an ace is appalling play and if you ran into an idiot then well done.