Bad play?

[jjandellis]

I went down the casino the other night for a bit of fun (£5 rebuy). The opposition as u would expect was very very weak. 70 runners. One minute theres 50 runners the next I'm on the FT, without actually doing much.

I went to the FT with only an M of 4, as shortly before a player called all in out of turn and I laid it down (only to be shown the same hand as my own). I am sat in seat 3, so a move is needed V soon.

First hand awful, next hand in the BB gets pushed in on and then I get this in the SB:

Blinds 600/1200 my stack 6200.

Player (Student) in mid position flat calls. (He's quite a big stack)
Player 2 (Chinese lad) in the cut off calls. (He's extremely loose)
I get    and make up the extra 600, leaving me with 5600.
BB checks. (V tight)

Comment - I don't know if this making up the blinds is a mistake, as these gappers aren't even sooted! But I'm in for value.

Flop comes:

 

Pot is 4800

I check. (First mistake? Do you push with just 8 outs?)
BB checks.
Student checks
Chinese lad bets 1200
I call
Student calls

Pot is 8400

Turn 

I check
Student checks
Chinese Lad bets 2000
I know I'm not getting the odds, but decide implied odds justify call/raise. I now only have 3200 if I fold - less than an M of 2. So what the hell, I push...
Student calls
Chinese lad calls

River comes blank and student shows for a pair of Kings, chinese lad mucks.

Your thoughts on this?

a. should I have just folded the SB? (and waited to see what dropped in my lap the next full orbit of the table)
b. Should I have pushed after the flop?
c. After the turn is it a push and a prayer?

[pswnio]

You just don't have enough chips to play here. I'm pushing or folding pre flop; this takes away any of your decisions later on. But having played the hand this way I'm pushing that flop; a check raise has no fold equity here.

And regardless of hand strength (first hand awful) if it had been an unopened pot I would more than likely push pre flop.

[totalise]

I dont mind the limp preflop, the pot is a pretty good size.. I'd defo push the flop though, checking here gets people committed with A high hands if they bet and you put your measly stack in, so pushing lets them fold out hands that you dont want committed to the pot.

Pushing the turn is value-less, you might as well call and see if you hit, if you miss you still got a chip and a chair, if you hit you will get called for your remaining chips 100% of the time by someone, so theres no upside to shipping it in on the turn.

[MANTIS01]

Most of the time you want to be getting your chips in aggressively in your current situation. The exception for me is limping in the sb into a multi-way pot because flopping a strong hand could really turn your tournament around for just half a bet.

Decision time is on the flop. I think that to check here is to surrender the pot. It is true that you only have 8 outs but outs only become relevant if you get called. You need this pot, you have the chance to speak first, you have enough chips to put a serious question to the field and IF you get called you will have a minimum of 8 cards to hit AND you're drawing to the nuts. Check-calling on a draw is not the best poker at any time, but when you have so few chips this is a bit suicidal imo. You are putting chips in hoping to hit one of your outs....so why not put your chips in first and IF you get business then you will have the same hopes you have now? In the end you put your chips in anyway, in a far less aggressive fashion and that is the mistake.

[boldie]

I have to agree with the posts above..it's the not pushing on the flop that's the mistake here..calling everything..well you simply don't have the chips to do that and that makes it no good.

[temp0r]

i used to push in this stage of such a donkament on that flop. however in this situation i think you'd of been called by the king. thats not i'd be worried about though. i've pushed here before and been called by a big stack student type with  and had them hold up!

dependant on other stack sizes and where the prize money is i'd check-raise the lot here i reckon.

[MANTIS01]

...and still get called by the now pot-comitted big stack student type.

[temp0r]

...and still get called by the now pot-comitted big stack student type.

yes but we make the pot bigger AND theres a chance someone would fold middle pair to that kinda play. so it's more +EV. no?