Have you ever?

[Royal Flush]

He was as rocky as they come.


The hand went like this, i limp UTG with 44 as do most of the table, LP goes ALLIN for 250 total, so everyone calls including this guy on the BB.

Flop 942, now this tight guy bets Pot into a dry pot, i think he has to have a hand, there is a flush draw possible and i do not put him on that, i reason he is 99 22 94 92 A9.

I flat call, wanted to see the action behnd me, i hope if someone raises i can get it all in. Everyone else folds.

The turn comes a 9, now he bets only about 1/3-1/4 the pot, at the time i was tourney CL and he was not far behind, i reasoned that he was not scared of the flush draw (he must have put me on it!!) because the bet was to small to get me of the flush draw, so i was quite happy he was a FH and i could only beat 22, so i passed. As soon as i did he said something like "phew i meant to bet more, scared you would call your flush draw" His bad bet on the turn saved his stack....oh well!!!

Blank river, i went on to bubble, lol.

[ACE2M]

He was as rocky as they come.


The hand went like this, i limp UTG with 44 as do most of the table, LP goes ALLIN for 250 total, so everyone calls including this guy on the BB.

Flop 942, now this tight guy bets Pot into a dry pot, i think he has to have a hand, there is a flush draw possible and i do not put him on that, i reason he is 99 22 94 92 A9.

I flat call, wanted to see the action behnd me, i hope if someone raises i can get it all in. Everyone else folds.

The turn comes a 9, now he bets only about 1/3-1/4 the pot, at the time i was tourney CL and he was not far behind, i reasoned that he was not scared of the flush draw (he must have put me on it!!) because the bet was to small to get me of the flush draw, so i was quite happy he was a FH and i could only beat 22, so i passed. As soon as i did he said something like "phew i meant to bet more, scared you would call your flush draw" His bad bet on the turn saved his stack....oh well!!!

Blank river, i went on to bubble, lol.

I could not lay that down in a million years. Shame you weren't correct then you would have felt like a million dollars.

[Ironside]

i hate big pairs late in tournys as i prefer to take pots down uncontested unless i am picking on small stacks with a large one.

14 players left in a big comp at the vic last year (18 paid but money in top 3) i had moved from a small stack at beginning of day 2 to 2nd biggest on table only to find KK UTG and the chip daddy (maniac)had AA i wasnt good enough to lay it down.
the next comp i played in the vic 16 players left (18 paid money in top 3) i was sat to left of Lucy R in my bb she lay down a raise from SB showing an Ace to my AK a few hands later she makes a raise from MP i have QQ and i am again unable to lay them down she only had AK this time but called in a flash for the board to read AAxxK


i hate to put all my chips in pots at that stage i would much rather pick up small pots that play for big ones as hands like KK are only small favourites via Ax and therefore one bad card could ruin your comp

[jezza777]

Ironside did I read your post correctly? "hands like KK are only small favourites versus Ax"  ?

[Ironside]

yep KK is only 2-1 against A2s whcih means that for every twice you win you lose once and if you in deep into a big comp do you really want to putting you chances of a big pay day on the line as a small favourite

[jezza777]

Yup yuor right, 67.5% to win. So if you hold KK and your opponent goes all in and turns over A2s would you fold or call?

[Royal Flush]

Yup yuor right, 67.5% to win. So if you hold KK and your opponent goes all in and turns over A2s would you fold or call?

He would call, but he wouldn't like it. The point he is trying to make is he would like someone to raise, he can move all in they can fold. He then picks up a smallish pot with no risk of being knocked out.

[Ironside]

more often than not call

but there will be times a good player lays it down thats when they have a edge over the field and can pick up chips without putting his comp on the line

i am not a good enough player to ever do that though as on most fields i dont have an edge never mind a big enough edge

[jezza777]

Points taken, thankyou

[ACE2M]

A quote from helmuth i think.

when asked how his tournament was going

he said 'it's going great, i've only been all in twice and one of the times i had the nuts'

Reinforces ironsides point i think.

[Ironside]

i taught hellmuth all he knows


now if only i had his bankroll

[Coca919]

Yep, I've also passed KK pre-flop before.  I've actually got it wrote in my blog so I can re-call exactly how it happened....

Down to 70 or so in the Crypto Sunday35k and I'm sitting 15th or so...

Utg 17k Stack limps for 400 chips.
Folded round to button 11k stack who raises to 2,400.
With a 14k stack I make it 4,800 with KK from the SB.
Utg then goes all in (at this point im thinking must be AA but can I bring myself to let go of KK and wonder for the rest of the tournement)
Button raiser calls the all in. This makes my decision a lot easier as I'm now certain at least one of them must have AA.

Sure enough utg turns over AA, and the button... 99? What a stupid call. Thanks for making it though cause it got me out of a potentionally tricky situation. He spiked the 9 as expected but I'm just glad I managed to get away from that one.

[JP]

I have passed KK in a satellite  online to which my friend said "what are you doing"? 5 mins later i had a seat.
I don't really play cash games but from my experiences in them people are a lot tighter and hefty reraising before the flop is GENERALLY QQ, KK and AA so would be willing to release KK to big preflop action in a cash game.
In live tournaments i have never passed KK preflop and my first 2 festival events I went out KK to AA. Unless you know the player MUST have AA to make a certain play it is extremely difficult to lay down. As the UB $200 has the best structure of any of the bigger tourney's imo i often see litte raising early on as the stacks are deep, by about the 5th or 6th raise I think it has to be AA for your opponent if holding KK. 1/24 times somebody will have AA when you have KK I believe and 18% of the time you will win.
So, in 1000 hands you will find AA 41 times and of those 41 times you will draw out nearly 8 of them (correct me if this is wrong just adding my thoughts).
Take your chances with the KK methinks go with the mathematics.

On a side note Flushy passing AA preflop................no comment. And why would you pass that 44..........no comment. 

[Royal Flush]

On a side note Flushy passing AA preflop................no comment. And why would you pass that 44..........no comment. 

Because i am a mug.

[Junior Senior]

You're up againts AA when holding KK about 1/24 times. So the answer is no, I have NEVER folded KK preflop hu.

really? please explain! - i would have thought it was much less likely than that.