money taken from my account by Will Hill

[thediceman]

this is clearly unfair however no-one said life was fair.

Stuff the little guy the big boys don't give a ****

Just the type of panel I would like to refer my case to. Think I'm better off trying the small claims court.

[thediceman]

Hi Dona8880,

We have re-investigated your query today and if you would like any further clarification on the decisions made please PM me directly.

Thanks

It would be nice if the outcome was shared with us so we can make an educated decision on how WH are likely to treat it's innocent players in the future in similar situations.

Then again a quick hush hush, sweep it under the carpet is normally the order of the day.

[Compo]

Hi

I do have some some experience of this as I sit on the IBAS panel which adjudicates inlive and internet betting/casino disputes  Firstly the operator is well within their rights to withold funds if they suspect collision. It doesn't have to be proved, just suspected. Chip dumping/collusion with stolen funds is rife on the internet and it is unfortunate when innocent parties are involved. there are cases when anyone playing on the same table as a supected user of a stolen cc has their funds frozen regardless of whether they have played a hand agianst the suspect or not.

The reason the operators give for witholding funds is that thay are waiting for a chargeback from the relevant card company. unfortunately there is no time limit on this process so in reality funds can be frozen forever locked in a cyberspace bank. this is clearly unfair however no-one said life was fair.

i suggest you contact IBAS at PO box 44781, london sw1w 0wr (tel 020 7881 2690) and request a complaints form.  the priocess will involve the case being sent to the panel for adjudication where the hand history for concerned parties wil be iinvestigated and a some of the brightest brains (!) in britain will rule on the case. Al operators who are registered with IBAS must conform with the ruling presented by the panel. IE if they find in your favour you will get your money refunded. If the panel decide that collusion did take place then you have done your dough.

For a member of an "Independent panel "it seems quite clear you lean more to protecting the site rather than the consumer.

Also, this from IBAS homepage...

IBAS is a non-statutory service and its rulings are not enforceable in law.

Not much kop then is it?


I resent that remark re bias and would ask that you withdraw it. How you have come to that conclusion is beyond me. i take a lot of pride in my IBAS role and can assure you that every decision reached is the result of independent thought with no brief to give an advantage to either party, but to correctly apply the bookmakers rules.
Until recently gambling debts were non-recoverable by law so it was a matter of honour regarding disputes. that has now changed.

Bookmakers and operators are currently not obliged to belong to IBAS, but customers are not obliged to bet with those that aren't registered.

Regarding the "not much" kop remark i suggest you ask the people who have received money  that was witheld by operators prioir to IBAS intervention whether it is much kop.

[donna8880]

i have already sent a form to IBAS, as this incident took place a number of months ago, i received a letter confirming they had received my form and im still awaiting the outcome. Thanks again.by the way ,who r u J Lo?? and yes i would like further clarification, ty

[Indestructable]

I am confused.
If the incident happened several months ago and you have already sent a form to IBAS, why have you raised this on Blonde now?

[totalise]

I am confused.
If the incident happened several months ago and you have already sent a form to IBAS, why have you raised this on Blonde now?

because it isn't resolved?

[wader leg]

Hi

I do have some some experience of this as I sit on the IBAS panel which adjudicates inlive and internet betting/casino disputes  Firstly the operator is well within their rights to withold funds if they suspect collision. It doesn't have to be proved, just suspected. Chip dumping/collusion with stolen funds is rife on the internet and it is unfortunate when innocent parties are involved. there are cases when anyone playing on the same table as a supected user of a stolen cc has their funds frozen regardless of whether they have played a hand agianst the suspect or not.

The reason the operators give for witholding funds is that thay are waiting for a chargeback from the relevant card company. unfortunately there is no time limit on this process so in reality funds can be frozen forever locked in a cyberspace bank. this is clearly unfair however no-one said life was fair.

i suggest you contact IBAS at PO box 44781, london sw1w 0wr (tel 020 7881 2690) and request a complaints form.  the priocess will involve the case being sent to the panel for adjudication where the hand history for concerned parties wil be iinvestigated and a some of the brightest brains (!) in britain will rule on the case. Al operators who are registered with IBAS must conform with the ruling presented by the panel. IE if they find in your favour you will get your money refunded. If the panel decide that collusion did take place then you have done your dough.

For a member of an "Independent panel "it seems quite clear you lean more to protecting the site rather than the consumer.

Also, this from IBAS homepage...

IBAS is a non-statutory service and its rulings are not enforceable in law.

Not much kop then is it?


I resent that remark re bias and would ask that you withdraw it. How you have come to that conclusion is beyond me. i take a lot of pride in my IBAS role and can assure you that every decision reached is the result of independent thought with no brief to give an advantage to either party, but to correctly apply the bookmakers rules.
Until recently gambling debts were non-recoverable by law so it was a matter of honour regarding disputes. that has now changed.

Bookmakers and operators are currently not obliged to belong to IBAS, but customers are not obliged to bet with those that aren't registered.

Regarding the "not much" kop remark i suggest you ask the people who have received money  that was witheld by operators prioir to IBAS intervention whether it is much kop.

All "independent" panels set up by  "x" to keep an eye on  "x"s behaviour will lean towards  "x"s favour .Politicians taught us that .

Defending poker sites actions by using the phrase "no-one said life was fair"
Anyone with a problem must be filled with optimism of your chances of getting their money back.


You say that once IBAS has ruled against you "you  have done your dough"
That's downright untrue, people can still take legal steps to get their money returned.

Is everyone on the panel of similar misleading views as yourself?

[Compo]

Please tell me what legal steps are open to someone who beliieves tha they are owned money by someone holding a gambling licence?

[Indestructable]

 

I am just glad that I didn't waste my breath defending the credit card companies, after all they are evil and do nothing for customers. If they were to write the money off it doesn't actually come from anywhere as they have a magic bucket  of "not really anyones money". Oops I have just wasted my breath.

[thediceman]

Please tell me what legal steps are open to someone who beliieves tha they are owned money by someone holding a gambling licence?

There are none that I know off including the IBAS panel.

The question is does IBAS provide me with a greater opportunity of getting my money back or taking direct action and making the poker playing public aware of the companies policy and general bad attitude towards it's customers, ie providing negative PR is more effective.

I think the phrase "this is clearly unfair however no-one said life was fair" suggests to me that I may be better off going alone. I want empathy and a positive attitude from anybody representating me not apathy.

If donna reported the situation to IBAS sometime ago I'd be interested to hear how they feel about the service they have so far received from IBAS.

[Compo]

Just to confirm. the role of IBAS is to in adjudicate in cases where customers feel they have  been unfairly/wrongly treated by the operator and as a consequence believe they are owed money. IBAS judges each case on its merit using the operators rule book as a guideline. I re-iterate i believe the method of witholding funds, when dealing with suspected chip-dumping or suspected stolen credit card fraud for an indefinate period is unfair, yet within the rules which every user agrees to when signing up to a particular site.

IBAS does not represent individuals or companies.

Any complainant can ask at any time for an update on their case. Some operators are more forthcoming with hand-histories etc which can delay the process.

[thediceman]

Took this comment from another site "the industry is spread across the globe with no reason for any of the rooms to agree to comply with any review or arbitration".

So how successful can/has IBAS been???.

I'm all for anything that can help an individual against a company who's customer service is something left to be desired but how effective can IBAS be considering the above point taken from another forum.

Also how does someone become aware of the IBAS organisation because I've never heard of it before this thread.

[tikay]

Took this comment from another site "the industry is spread across the globe with no reason for any of the rooms to agree to comply with any review or arbitration".

So how successful can/has IBAS been???.

I'm all for anything that can help an individual against a company who's customer service is something left to be desired but how effective can IBAS be considering the above point taken from another forum.

Also how does someone become aware of the IBAS organisation because I've never heard of it before this thread.

IBAS have been around for about 10 years so far as I know.

See.....

http://www.ibas-uk.com/

It is, I believe, the successor to what used to be known as the Green Seal Service, which was in the Sporting Life for donkeys years. All punters knew of the Green Seal Service, though punting was very different pre-internet.

So far as I can see, it represents neither the Punter/gambler or the bookie/Online Site. It's independent.

It would be unfair for me to pass opinions on this thread (the above are facts), as Dave Compton, aka Compo, is a personal friend.

[tikay]

i have already sent a form to IBAS, as this incident took place a number of months ago, i received a letter confirming they had received my form and im still awaiting the outcome. Thanks again.by the way ,who r u J Lo?? and yes i would like further clarification, ty

J-Lo works for William Hill, & has been a Member of the blonde Forum since June 2006. He has always answered queries & questions which involve William Hill, & his Posts make it clear he's a William Hill Employee, with the authority to speak on their behalf. He took over as the William Hill spokesman on blonde after Phil Quayle (bobby1) left the Company.

[thediceman]

IBAS may be of use if people knew/know about it.