Tournament Prize Structures

[tikay]

ian just cause APAt say no deals and use cheques to pay people doesnt mean you can do a deal

same as any comp if you do a deal behind there back that doesnt include the trophey and the added seat they cant stop you

Correct. We do NOT ban deals, but we do discourage them. Only once in Season One was there ever a suggestion of a Deal, & that convo ended quickly & amicably when we reminded the players of the APAT ethos.

i agree

its impossible to ban deals, but by having a shallow structure and a freindly word they are discouraged

of course if people did do a deal they could find that apat (or the sponsors) could withdraw the added seat and ban the players from future events

Our sponsors have no such rights or control over any APAT Policy whatsoever. They give us Added Money, & we pass all of it on. It's no more or less than that.

It's hypothetical to suggest APAT would consider Banning anyone who did a Deal in an APAT National Championship, but it's highly unlikely & would not get my Vote or approval. APAT discourages deals, that's all, & the players do not want to do Deals in APAT Events. The facts from Season One confirm this unequivocally.

APAT will be around for a very long time, judging by the demand there is for seats, & by Sponsors recognition of it's merit as a Series. Eventually, someone will do some "businesss" in an APAT National Championship Final, it's inevitable I guess, but the world won't stop turning, & APAT will continue to go from strength to strength, because it gives it's Members precisely what they want. Excellent value, Added Money, & a terrrific atmosphere in which serious poker can be enjoyed.

[ripple11]

A large majority of players, for whatever reason, attempt to change the payout structure during the business end of the game....and that is often messy, awkward and so easily avoidable.

A steady incline for the last 10% of players is pretty straight forward to offer....very few people seem to want a skateboard type of slope!

[ifm]

Wrong again. As you well know Ian, in APAT we have structured the payouts the way we have for a very specific reason.


£4500 and ept copenhagen seat for 1st

£1800

£900

£300 4th to 9th

Extremely top heavy yet you "discourage" deals?

Pointless argument, it little matters what the structure is because there will be deals regardless.

I think it's a good point that with the present types of structures you can deal flatter but with a flatter structure to begin with you cannot deal steeper so in effect you are taking an option away.

p.s. the poll is still dodgy

p.p.s. I still have chips and card tables for sale............

[tikay]

Wrong again. As you well know Ian, in APAT we have structured the payouts the way we have for a very specific reason.


£4500 and ept copenhagen seat for 1st

£1800

£900

£300 4th to 9th

Extremely top heavy yet you "discourage" deals?

Pointless argument, it little matters what the structure is because there will be deals regardless.

I think it's a good point that with the present types of structures you can deal flatter but with a flatter structure to begin with you cannot deal steeper so in effect you are taking an option away.

p.s. the poll is still dodgy

p.p.s. I still have chips and card tables for sale............

Extremely top heavy yet you "discourage" deals?

Correct. And the APAT players don't want to deal. The record reflects this, it's not an opinion, it's a fact. It may change, as may our prize structure as soon as the Members Committee is formed, but hitherto, it's a fact.

But players DO want to do deals in regular Tourneys. The record reflects that too.

Will you be at Walsall for APAT this weekend?

How much do you want for the chips & card tables?

[tikay]

Wrong again. As you well know Ian, in APAT we have structured the payouts the way we have for a very specific reason.


£4500 and ept copenhagen seat for 1st

£1800

£900

£300 4th to 9th

Extremely top heavy yet you "discourage" deals?

Pointless argument, it little matters what the structure is because there will be deals regardless.

I think it's a good point that with the present types of structures you can deal flatter but with a flatter structure to begin with you cannot deal steeper so in effect you are taking an option away.

p.s. the poll is still dodgy

p.p.s. I still have chips and card tables for sale............

From which I deduce you don't like the result of the Poll......?

[thediceman]

Why can't APAT events have a flatter structure???. Granted they have the added prize which makes it automatically top heavy but if you have a flatter money structure this surely supports your belief this is best for the players and they would continue to play to win just for the added prize of the seat. Flat payments from 4th to 10th is one of the worst structures I can imagine and takes away from the game as players know they may as well gamble rather than play a typical poker as they don't gain any advantage by merely climbing up the ladder as in a normal comp.

And maybe one reason APAT comps have not been subject to deals is that many players are recreational players, maybe playing in their first live comp and not familar/comfortable with raising the issue of doing a deal.

[tikay]

Why can't APAT events have a flatter structure???. Granted they have the added prize which makes it automatically top heavy but if you have a flatter money structure this surely supports your belief this is best for the players and they would continue to play to win just for the added prize of the seat. Flat payments from 4th to 10th is one of the worst structures I can imagine and takes away from the game as players know they may as well gamble rather than play a typical poker as they don't gain any advantage by merely climbing up the ladder as in a normal comp.

And maybe one reason APAT comps have not been subject to deals is that many players are recreational players, maybe playing in their first live comp and not familar/comfortable with raising the issue of doing a deal.

They can, but we chose not to go that way, for reasons specific to APAT which we've explained many times.

The Members Committee will be deciding such things very soon, & if they decide to change it, it''ll change. For Season One & the beginning of Season Two, Des, Tighty & myself had to decide these things, & we've hit the right note judging by the popularity of the Series & lack of Deals, but soon it'll be the decision of the Members Committee, so nobody will be able to argue then. For now, if anyone thinks it's wrong - & the Players don't thus far - blame us three!

Remember, I am generally IN FAVOUR of flatter structures, so I must have had compelling reasons to go against the grain here. These have been articulated many, many, times.

[ifm]

From which I deduce you don't like the result of the Poll......?

Not at all, i seem to constantly be saying i believe that people WHO PLAY IN THE COMPS should have the ability to set them up as they wish, the logistics of this are very difficult though.
I am not against flatter structures at all, i am pro choice.
I have started running a small comp at a local pub (don't tell the GC) on Wednesdays (the new rules killed off Rileys, 4 runners there last week BTW).
Anyway we had 19 runners and i said ok we'll pay top 5 and nice and flat structure, put it to the floor and we ended up with.........................

£480 prizepool

Winner £280
2nd £120
3rd £80

You give em what they want i say.

Walsall saturday?
Can i still qualify? been busy with work, the kids and he ex robbing my car for the last 6 weeks!!

[tikay]

From which I deduce you don't like the result of the Poll......?

Not at all, i seem to constantly be saying i believe that people WHO PLAY IN THE COMPS should have the ability to set them up as they wish, the logistics of this are very difficult though.
I am not against flatter structures at all, i am pro choice.
I have started running a small comp at a local pub (don't tell the GC) on Wednesdays (the new rules killed off Rileys, 4 runners there last week BTW).
Anyway we had 19 runners and i said ok we'll pay top 5 and nice and flat structure, put it to the floor and we ended up with.........................

£480 prizepool

Winner £280
2nd £120
3rd £80

You give em what they want i say.

Walsall saturday?
Can i still qualify? been busy with work, the kids and he ex robbing my car for the last 6 weeks!!

Too late to qualify for Walsall now Ian, sorry. But it'd be good to see you at an APAT National Event someday soon, I believe you'd enjoy the APAT Experience a great deal, if you'll pardon the pun!

[bobby1]

In my opinion payout stuctures at many venues are ridiculous.

[technolog]

Walsall saturday?
Can i still qualify? been busy with work, the kids and he ex robbing my car for the last 6 weeks!!

You could turn up at the casino - I would suggest 12 noon at the latest - and try to get in as an alternate.

[ifm]

Walsall saturday?
Can i still qualify? been busy with work, the kids and he ex robbing my car for the last 6 weeks!!

You could turn up at the casino - I would suggest 12 noon at the latest - and try to get in as an alternate.

I first thought yeah right, but with the new rules i suppose they have to allow alternates.

[KarmaDope]

Taken from the APAT briefing:

Alternates will be allowed the opportunity to take part during the first two levels.   An additional prize of £75 will be created as a result of each alternate who is allowed to enter.  This money will be awarded to the players finishing directly outside the above prize pool, so if for example 4 alternates take part in the event, then finishing positions from 21st to 24th will each win back their buy in of £75.  The alternates will be chosen from the APAT controlled reserve list started at the venue at midday on the first day of play.  This will enable a small number of additional members to participate in an APAT event.

[Woodsey]

I think at a £300 comp at the broadway earlier this year the payouts were something like

1st 14k
2nd 5.5k

I can't remember the %'s but all I know was the top 3 got the lot and 1st was more than double 2nd, it was flipping nuts. I can't disagree more about the 'you can always do a deal attitude', I had a situation where some random bloke who and I had never seen before and not seen since tried to back out of our verbal arrangement and there would have been nothing I could have done about it because the casino did not recognise deals. I got the cash in the end after basically saying WTF you can't do that, but its unfair however unlikely it is to happen, to put people in a situation like that.

[RED-DOG]

The " You can always do a deal" argument doesn't stand up. If prize structures were flatter, players could always do a deal to make them steeper again, but I don't think that would happen too often.