KK - call an all-in?

[AdamM]

you can tell a lot about a player before the first card is pitched.

The bet is screaming AA, you're just looking for information to confirm this for you before making a very tough but necessary pass.

[kinboshi]

I'm with you on the pass, but not sure what I'd need to see to convince me to call.

Some suggestions please, so I can fake them when I shove with AA early doors .

[KingPoker]

i wish i was telepathic like adam

[kinboshi]

It was a serious question.  I've made a few reads in my short time playing live that I'm very proud of.  But I'm usually worried that I'll misread weakness and think someone's strong (and vice versa) - not knowing when it's a real or fake tell.

What would people be looking for here, or whenever someone makes a bold all-in move?

[dazzaster]

You cant really call on a read alone in this spot, You have no prior knowledge of this person he may look nervous. But why? Maybe its his first major tourny, maybe he got AA busted last time and is convinced his bad luck is coming all over again.
Or he may look strong, but maybe hs an idiot that thinks AQ or JJ is the nuts.
Just Pass the KK dudes...........

[kinboshi]

I'm folding (you know that), but say later in the tournament and you have whatever, and someone shoves.  What do you look for to 'convince' you to call?  I've sometimes found that asking them questions can help (if they answer!).

I'd really be interested in what experienced players say here. 

[KingPoker]

I'm folding (you know that), but say later in the tournament and you have whatever, and someone shoves.  What do you look for to 'convince' you to call?  I've sometimes found that asking them questions can help (if they answer!).

I'd really be interested in what experienced players say here. 

pm tighty, thats what i did!

[AdamM]

it's not telepathy KP but you could certainly call it instinct.

People are always giving off information. You just get a feeling for it.

I'll have a think about it and post a bit more detail at lunchtime when I have a bit of time.

[AdamM]

ok, not specific to this situation, here's what I'm thinking.

In my martial arts group we spend a lot of time discussing body language. Reading aggressive and passive signals in others and learning to spot when those signals are fake or exaggerated. Also sometimes trying to appear passive when poised to throw your knockout hook, or conversely, trying to psych someone out with aggression, when you'd rather it not get physical. Sounds a lot like poker to me.

The old advice is sound. when you're not in a hand, practice putting active players on cards based on betting patterns AND behaviour / body language.

Something I did from early on in my live poker is make sure I got to the bar early and keep my eyes and ears peeled. This is another overlap with the martial arts. I know it sounds paranoid, but a good martial artist should be assessing almost everyone around them for threat levels. It mostly happens on a subconscious level until a potential threat is picked up, then it snaps into a conscious assessment. Again, poker is the same.
How a player conducts himself at the bar, buying in, taking his seat, arranging his chips, looking at his cards, etc are all building a picture before your first clash with him. Mostly these things will be going on subconsciously but the odd thing will attract your attention. You're using these 'feelings' about a player to assist in your decision making later on.

Applying some of this to the OP hand, an analogy would be;
Him quietly - "Give me your money!"
You calmly but forcefully - "You've picked the wrong guy to mug here mate, I'm quite handy."
Him Frothing at the mouth -
"I HAVE A GUN AND I'M GOING TO SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE!!!!"
Now you can either hope he actually only has a banana in his pocket and stand and fight, or you can give him the benefit of the doubt and run for the hills, waiting for the next time when the conversation goes;

Him quietly - "Give me your money!"
You calmly but forcefully - "You've picked the wrong guy to mug here mate, I'm quite handy."
Him Meekly - Sorry to bother you mate, I'll go and pick on someone else"

[Jon MW]

...
Something I did from early on in my live poker is make sure I got to the bar early and keep my eyes and ears peeled. ...
How a player conducts himself at the bar, buying in, taking his seat, arranging his chips, looking at his cards, etc are all building a picture before your first clash with him. Mostly these things will be going on subconsciously but the odd thing will attract your attention. You're using these 'feelings' about a player to assist in your decision making later on.
...

Is the right answer - and the right thing to do - but, how much faith would you really put in it right at the beginning of the tournament without any appreciable knowledge of how they play their cards.

i.e. Would you really be happy to make the call based purely on the read of his body language and your instinct?

[Claw75]

It was a serious question.  I've made a few reads in my short time playing live that I'm very proud of.  But I'm usually worried that I'll misread weakness and think someone's strong (and vice versa) - not knowing when it's a real or fake tell.

What would people be looking for here, or whenever someone makes a bold all-in move?

I think I'm pretty good on picking up reads, but tbh I don't usually look for them until after the flop has been dealt, as I find that's the best time to pick things up.

I'm not looking for any reads here though - I'm not passing here whether he's sitting quiet as a mouse or dancing on the table.

[AdamM]

i.e. Would you really be happy to make the call based purely on the read of his body language and your instinct?

You aren't making the decision based solely on your read of their body language.
The bet is screaming AA. you should be 90% sure of his hand based on the betting.
You're looking for an instinctive read on the player to help you get over the line for this very hard but necessary laydown.
I doubt I'd see anything so convincing I'd be able to change my mind about the Aces.

[kinboshi]

It was a serious question.  I've made a few reads in my short time playing live that I'm very proud of.  But I'm usually worried that I'll misread weakness and think someone's strong (and vice versa) - not knowing when it's a real or fake tell.

What would people be looking for here, or whenever someone makes a bold all-in move?

I think I'm pretty good on picking up reads, but tbh I don't usually look for them until after the flop has been dealt, as I find that's the best time to pick things up.

I'm not looking for any reads here though - I'm not passing here whether he's sitting quiet as a mouse or dancing on the table.

FYP

[kinboshi]

i.e. Would you really be happy to make the call based purely on the read of his body language and your instinct?

You aren't making the decision based solely on your read of their body language.
The bet is screaming AA. you should be 90% sure of his hand based on the betting.
You're looking for an instinctive read on the player to help you get over the line for this very hard but necessary laydown.
I doubt I'd see anything so convincing I'd be able to change my mind about the Aces.

That's the thing.  His bet screams AA.  If the 10% left screams otherwise, is that enough to override the range you think the betting puts him on?

[AdamM]

He might still kill me with the banana in his pocket.

I don't think this particular decision requires reading body language. It's a pass for me.

if he makes it 200, you make it 600 and he makes it 2000, then you might be looking for information telling you pass / call / push.