Constructive criticism required

[madasahatstand]

the sarcasm flies out and on this occassion it got very personal around one member.

I don't think it got personal, i think it stayed on topic.

I'd be interested in why you  think Blonde is not ready?

Mainly because people want to be treated with kid gloves, they don't like being told they have done something wrong.

Kid gloves? LMAO, you'll forgive me if I dont agree:) You are right about one thing though,  people dont want to be told they have done something wrong or that they have 'mangled' the hand. They want to get involved in discussion and analysis around WHY they have not made the right move or how they could have played better. Thats what generally provokes thinking. Believe it or not, most people respond better to that than the ego brigade telling them what they have done is crap........

This is evident by the apparent hundreds who don't feel they can post on PHA, i think it tallys to more than the total number of regular posters on the forum, that's quite an amount who are not ready.

And you've done some market research to evidence this? How is it evident? Explain WHY please would you, because its not my view of the world. You see how many people read the PHA boards in proportion to the posters. There are a minority who post to those who read so I would suggest this gives a real indiction on how ready blonde is to expand with some constructive PHA and start engaging with a lot of those readers.  Feel free to come back and tell me how I've mangled this debate though:)

[madasahatstand]

Collectively, the Mods must have over a hundred PM's from Members who say they have been deterred from asking for advice on the PHA as there are so often sarcstic responses.

This PHA Board could be soooooo good, if only......

I dont think I need to add more to that:)t what doubleup said and take heed. Dont you want folk to think outside your box, even when you think they are completely wrong? Some of 'feel' discussion will aid some people

Your quite right, blonde poker just isn't ready for a PHA board, that i think is the problem, the majority of members would rather talk about things not related to poker rather than improving their games.

I will continue to post in PHA but its impossible to pussy foot around when people have mangled hands, a spade after all is a spade.

Part of learning is the revelation that you are uneducated in certain things, if that causes embarrassment to some people then they can carry on as they are steadily losing, but hopefully not more than they can afford.

As for the whole Mantis debate, the guy is clearly intelligent and writes better than most, i personally feel his poker strat is very lacking, as long as he continues to debate here then i will continue to point out what i believe to be flaws in his strat, i am sure he expects nothing less than that, it is the nature of PHA.

This is what I was getting at except this is written better
1 thing I will say about Mantis, he would likely kick my ass at an writing contest

He would kick most peoples arses when it comes to writing:)

[LuckyLloyd]

The comments that lament the fact that posters don't explain why they would play a hand differently confuse me. I always give reasons for why I would do things differently (as does Flushy and Cooker) and yet we are still the "bad guys". Even when you give a detailed reasoning and analysis the counter is: "well I have my style that works for me and I'm choosing to stick to it". For me, it is those types of posts that are the real problem.

When people post on a PHA board they do it in the hope to improve their game (or they should). One thing that pisses good posters on various boards off quicker than anything else is when people who you have seen around in certain threads post up hands or give replies with incorrect reasoning that has been debated a number of times in the past couple of weeks. If you get the sense that the debate is not moving forward or that people are not really assimilating the advice they receive and insist on making the same mistakes repeatadly or bang on with the same incorrect nonensene constantly then the motivation to contribute evaporates. This also follows when you see many threads where the motivation of the original poster is just to receive reassurance that they played ok - not that they want to undertake a rigurous assessment of the decisions they made.

In essence, that is what this thread is about from my perspective. I firmly believe that this thread was not pushed off topic by me. It was about drawing a line on a particular strategic and mathamatical fundamental so that the debate - and by extension the hand analysis board - can move forward.

[MANTIS01]

The comments that lament the fact that posters don't explain why they would play a hand differently confuse me. I always give reasons for why I would do things differently (as does Flushy and Cooker) and yet we are still the "bad guys". Even when you give a detailed reasoning and analysis the counter is: "well I have my style that works for me and I'm choosing to stick to it". For me, it is those types of posts that are the real problem.

That is how you see things in your head Lloyd.

Now read how Cooker involves himself in the discussion of TightEnd's hand.

While I understand the mods points about civility on the forum and I agree there is a certain level of decency that should be kept but Mantis posts or so incredibly wrong and fundamentally flawed in every way that it is in interest of everyone who reads this for it to be noted. For the good of the forum this has to be pointed out and has it to happen over and over again when he posts.

That is how it is in reality.

Confusion over.

There are many many other eg's of similar and in reality it is those types of posts which are the real problem.

[Graham C]

turned in to a good post eh

[Jon MW]

I had one thought.

Technically I had more than one, but the others seem to have been covered,

...
He doesn't rate me, probably thinks I'll lay down most hands to a raise there
...

If he thinks you'll lay down most hands - would a check call slow him down on the turn, if he was just bluffing?

The fact that it is three way on a drawy flop makes check calling to induce bluffs or give him rope or whatever a non - runner. We are short enough that it only takes two pot sized bets for half our stack to be in the pot. And on this type of board, the more money that goes in on the turn or river with TPTK the less profitable it will be for us. Our equity is always going to be best on the flop because there is more gamble left in the hand so a wider range of draws and one pair hands will be willing to pay us off.

If we allow cards to peel three handed the more likely it is that we aren't best at showdown - and the less likely opponents (even spewy morons) are to be bluffing.


If we were headsup against this Nav fella, a check / call line may be very viable - even preferable. As is, I like playing for stacks now.

That's the kind of question I might ask of Hand Analysis, and that's the type of answer I would expect to receive.

There might sometimes be the odd bit of mocking and slightly unnecessary personal criticism, but in general I think the PHA Board is working fairly well - maybe slightly more discipline might be required to stop what should be a 2 or 3 page analysis escalating into a 100+ post monster - but it's really not that bad. (Is it?)

[Royal Flush]

And you've done some market research to evidence this? How is it evident? Explain WHY please would you, because its not my view of the world.

Not the world mad, i said PHA.

My market research was your quote from Tikay and i prefaced it with the word apparent because i don't believe tikay.

[madasahatstand]

And you've done some market research to evidence this? How is it evident? Explain WHY please would you, because its not my view of the world.

Not the world mad, i said PHA.

My market research was your quote from Tikay and i prefaced it with the word apparent because i don't believe tikay.

*sigh*   

[cooker3]

The comments that lament the fact that posters don't explain why they would play a hand differently confuse me. I always give reasons for why I would do things differently (as does Flushy and Cooker) and yet we are still the "bad guys". Even when you give a detailed reasoning and analysis the counter is: "well I have my style that works for me and I'm choosing to stick to it". For me, it is those types of posts that are the real problem.

That is how you see things in your head Lloyd.

Now read how Cooker involves himself in the discussion of TightEnd's hand.

While I understand the mods points about civility on the forum and I agree there is a certain level of decency that should be kept but Mantis posts or so incredibly wrong and fundamentally flawed in every way that it is in interest of everyone who reads this for it to be noted. For the good of the forum this has to be pointed out and has it to happen over and over again when he posts.

That is how it is in reality.

Confusion over.

There are many many other eg's of similar and in reality it is those types of posts which are the real problem.

While I concede I may have been overly harsh in the above post my point still stands in general and does generally go along with what Lloyd was saying.
If someone whether you, me or whoever posts something which is fundamentally incorrect and has been shown in many previous posts then it is only right that this be argued. If this continues over numerous threads and the same "mistakes" are been made over and over again then should be pinpointed and pointed out everytime. It's for good of everyone.

Also for whoever said they rather the good posters explain their reasoning. Yes that would be good but people only have enough time in the day. I would much rather a quality poster reply to any HH I post saying something like raise pf, b/f the flop etc then not post at all. That way I can think why they like that line and what the advantages are and do some thinking for myself.
Something is better then nothing

[ifm]

 go along with what Lloyd was saying.

 

[AlexMartin]

The comments that lament the fact that posters don't explain why they would play a hand differently confuse me. I always give reasons for why I would do things differently (as does Flushy and Cooker) and yet we are still the "bad guys". Even when you give a detailed reasoning and analysis the counter is: "well I have my style that works for me and I'm choosing to stick to it". For me, it is those types of posts that are the real problem.

That is how you see things in your head Lloyd.

Now read how Cooker involves himself in the discussion of TightEnd's hand.

While I understand the mods points about civility on the forum and I agree there is a certain level of decency that should be kept but Mantis posts or so incredibly wrong and fundamentally flawed in every way that it is in interest of everyone who reads this for it to be noted. For the good of the forum this has to be pointed out and has it to happen over and over again when he posts.

That is how it is in reality.

Confusion over.

There are many many other eg's of similar and in reality it is those types of posts which are the real problem.

While I concede I may have been overly harsh in the above post my point still stands in general and does generally go along with what Lloyd was saying.
If someone whether you, me or whoever posts something which is fundamentally incorrect and has been shown in many previous posts then it is only right that this be argued. If this continues over numerous threads and the same "mistakes" are been made over and over again then should be pinpointed and pointed out everytime. It's for good of everyone.

Also for whoever said they rather the good posters explain their reasoning. Yes that would be good but people only have enough time in the day. I would much rather a quality poster reply to any HH I post saying something like raise pf, b/f the flop etc then not post at all. That way I can think why they like that line and what the advantages are and do some thinking for myself.
Something is better then nothing

But there will always be winning players that fundamentally disagree with anothers view, even after it has been debated and tossed around from Monday to Friday. I think this board should really just be about stimulating the way people think rather than getting into the facade of finding the "right" play.

[ifm]

I think only winning players who provide proof of this over at least 5 years should be allowed to respond to any HH/PHA request.
The posting rules on this board should be ammended thus forthwith and the fool who omitted it to begin with needs to be publicly flogged.
Those that are permitted to respond (possibly one though i doubt that) are therefore entitled to abuse at will any moron stupid enough to post in this board.

Terms like "retard", "retarded", "moronic", "are you really that fkin thick", "let me know when you are playing next cuz i wanna be in that game you freakin muppet", "you are so crap LOLOLOLOLOLOL", "i nailed your momma last night" etc. should be standard, in fact we need smilies that help to convey this basic advice.

Anyone with an opposing view should be killed, no, worse, publicly humiliated by a gang comprising of all (both) of the one (or more) (or less) true god.

I'll mod the board, piece of piss!!

[AlexMartin]

I think only winning players who provide proof of this over at least 5 years should be allowed to respond to any HH/PHA request.
The posting rules on this board should be ammended thus forthwith and the fool who omitted it to begin with needs to be publicly flogged.
Those that are permitted to respond (possibly one though i doubt that) are therefore entitled to abuse at will any moron stupid enough to post in this board.

Terms like "retard", "retarded", "moronic", "are you really that fkin thick", "let me know when you are playing next cuz i wanna be in that game you freakin muppet", "you are so crap LOLOLOLOLOLOL", "i nailed your momma last night" etc. should be standard, in fact we need smilies that help to convey this basic advice.

Anyone with an opposing view should be killed, no, worse, publicly humiliated by a gang comprising of all (both) of the one (or more) (or less) true god.

I'll mod the board, piece of piss!!

I second this. I want to design the "ur a piece of crap, my dead auntie could have played that hand better than you" smilie.

[kinboshi]

[AlexMartin]

hahhahhahahaa