Tax and Poker

[cia260895]

Couple of questions,

1)when you win at poker it is tax free, agreed? because of the buy in structure(is that right i dunno for sure?)

 2)so if your a professional poker player do you effectively have to keep a record of all your buy ins? which would effectively be your tax contributions,hence enabling you to claim tax relief on it?

3)and does that mean then that apart from the buy in fees you don't have to pay tax??

[kinboshi]

In the UK you don't pay tax on gambling winnings (poker or otherwise).

You can't therefore claim any expenses.

I'm sure others who know more about it will explain it in more detail.

[cia260895]

In the UK you don't pay tax on gambling winnings (poker or otherwise).

You can't therefore claim any expenses.

I'm sure others who know more about it will explain it in more detail.

agreed but your buy in fee isn't poker winnings it's just that a fee, something you have to pay for regardless if you win or lose therfore that is your expenses which you should be entiltled to get relief on it along with the petrol/running costs of cars etc maybe i've missed something but can you see where i'm coming from?

[tikay]

In the UK you don't pay tax on gambling winnings (poker or otherwise).

You can't therefore claim any expenses.

I'm sure others who know more about it will explain it in more detail.

agreed but your buy in fee isn't poker winnings it's just that a fee, something you have to pay for regardless if you win or lose therfore that is your expenses which you should be entiltled to get relief on it along with the petrol/running costs of cars etc maybe i've missed something but can you see where i'm coming from?

Pioker winnings are not taxable, thus you cannot get relief on a non-taxable item. We can't have it both ways!

Poker winnings will NEVER be taxed, it's simply unenforceable. If winnings were to be taxed, losses would have to be offset - it's just unworkable.

I'd be more worried about Casinos "taxing" Tourney winnings, via deductions for Leagues, Dealers pools, etc. It's gonna happen unless we are vigilant.

[M3boy]

Correct Tony

You would run into so so many problems as people will try to claim "losses" and offset against regular income.

The problem the Revenue would then have is to decide weather the poker was infact a business or a hobby.

[Ironside]

how can the americans get away with taxing it without paying all the losers then?

[doubleup]

how can the americans get away with taxing it without paying all the losers then?

Because their law is different.


In the uk individual gambling is not a trade, profession or vocation determined in a court case many years ago and gambling profits in general are not taxed.  In the us they only allow you to register as having a profession of gambling if you meet certain criteria and also all gambling profit is taxable. 

[da_poker_monkey]

Delete this entire thread immediately!!!!  If Gordan Brown catches wind of this idea a small hurdle like taxing the winnings being completely unworkable will not stop him from trying to squeeze some money out somehow.

[Ironside]

how can the americans get away with taxing it without paying all the losers then?

Because their law is different.


In the uk individual gambling is not a trade, profession or vocation determined in a court case many years ago and gambling profits in general are not taxed.  In the us they only allow you to register as having a profession of gambling if you meet certain criteria and also all gambling profit is taxable. 

see the government could change the UK law after all thats why they are there so that gaming wins are taxable but you cant claim on loses

if i remember right it wasnt long ago that they removed the 10%tax on all bet

dont think people were able to claim back there loses then

no reason why they CAN'T put a 25% tax on all bets

apart from pissing off some of there backers

but they did that when theyput a tax on online gaming and sportsbetting firms when there backers thought

the UK was going to become the new gibralter

[doubleup]

how can the americans get away with taxing it without paying all the losers then?

Because their law is different.


In the uk individual gambling is not a trade, profession or vocation determined in a court case many years ago and gambling profits in general are not taxed.  In the us they only allow you to register as having a profession of gambling if you meet certain criteria and also all gambling profit is taxable. 

see the government could change the UK law after all thats why they are there so that gaming wins are taxable but you cant claim on loses

if i remember right it wasnt long ago that they removed the 10%tax on all bet

dont think people were able to claim back there loses then

no reason why they CAN'T put a 25% tax on all bets

apart from pissing off some of there backers

but they did that when theyput a tax on online gaming and sportsbetting firms when there backers thought

the UK was going to become the new gibralter

The point is that if it was a levy or duty it would only apply in the uk and for example completely kill off the casino and onshore bookmaking industry leading to job losses and loss of uk tax. If they changed the law to include gambling as a trade profession or vocation, then losses could be offset. 

[cia260895]

In the UK you don't pay tax on gambling winnings (poker or otherwise).

You can't therefore claim any expenses.

I'm sure others who know more about it will explain it in more detail.

agreed but your buy in fee isn't poker winnings it's just that a fee, something you have to pay for regardless if you win or lose therfore that is your expenses which you should be entiltled to get relief on it along with the petrol/running costs of cars etc maybe i've missed something but can you see where i'm coming from?

Pioker winnings are not taxable, thus you cannot get relief on a non-taxable item. We can't have it both ways!

Poker winnings will NEVER be taxed, it's simply unenforceable. If winnings were to be taxed, losses would have to be offset - it's just unworkable.

I'd be more worried about Casinos "taxing" Tourney winnings, via deductions for Leagues, Dealers pools, etc. It's gonna happen unless we are vigilant.

But i am not talking about the WINNINGS i'm talking about your buy in fees which aren't winnings.
e.g say you play 100 tournaments a year with a buy in of £100 your layout will be £10,000 regardless if u win or lose thus making it expenses along with petrol food and hotels??
So do you professionals not pay tax then???

[M3boy]

The expenses are related to Poker (which is not taxed) so therefore the expenses are not tax deductable.

The Revenue would run into the same problems they had a few years back with letting people "claim" for using their own car for business purposes on a profit and loss basis (Sec 419 claim). As you can imagine, people took the piss (me included )

The costs involved for the Revenue to "police" these claims were huge.

Hense it was stopped and replaced by a flat rate mileage allowance.

[londonpokergirl]

The problem I have is that as Dec's dad is an online poker pro, the poker rooms won't release me information due to Data Protection and cannot get 1p out of him until he either comes clean about his earnings so CSA will give me money or he gets a normal job

So in some ways I wish it was taxable so he has to pay up!

[Jon MW]

In the UK you don't pay tax on gambling winnings (poker or otherwise).

You can't therefore claim any expenses.

I'm sure others who know more about it will explain it in more detail.

agreed but your buy in fee isn't poker winnings it's just that a fee, something you have to pay for regardless if you win or lose therfore that is your expenses which you should be entiltled to get relief on it along with the petrol/running costs of cars etc maybe i've missed something but can you see where i'm coming from?

Pioker winnings are not taxable, thus you cannot get relief on a non-taxable item. We can't have it both ways!

Poker winnings will NEVER be taxed, it's simply unenforceable. If winnings were to be taxed, losses would have to be offset - it's just unworkable.

I'd be more worried about Casinos "taxing" Tourney winnings, via deductions for Leagues, Dealers pools, etc. It's gonna happen unless we are vigilant.

But i am not talking about the WINNINGS i'm talking about your buy in fees which aren't winnings.
e.g say you play 100 tournaments a year with a buy in of £100 your layout will be £10,000 regardless if u win or lose thus making it expenses along with petrol food and hotels??
So do you professionals not pay tax then???

I think the only tax which could apply would be if the government decided that tournament entry fees were VATable.

[AndrewT]

I think the only tax which could apply would be if the government decided that tournament entry fees were VATable.

"I'd like to enter tonight's tournament please"

"That'll be £110 please sir. Or £105 if you pay by cash."