Turbo SnG Bubble

[Longy]

Playing for the money is most crucial though. Making the cash is no1 priority.  I tend to go for the cash first, then go for 1st spot.

Really? In a satellite maybe, in a normal STT never... Playing for first is crucial...

Neither is strictly true, though on the bubble as the non chipleader Silo view tends to be closer to the truth. I would say just learn ICM as our aim should be to make the most money long term.

[MANTIS01]

If you think the others have the same mentality, exactly the reason to get even more aggressive...

Yes, very good. All four of you left in the comp recognise the situation. But who is going to take advantage of it? It is easy for the cl to take advantage...and he will. It's less easy for you but the opportunity to do so exists nonetheless. It's easier and less risky to fold and wait for the bubble to burst but when it does the cl is going to have a commanding advantage...an advantage you allowed to happen. Not only that, if the ss gets a couple of breaks you could be sweating on 4th yourself....it costs 1,200 every 4 hands and you have 3,600. The cl will be loving his power right now and wont be keen to toss it away on a coin flip.

[Boba Fett]

The BB should be folding AK here, if you have him as a good player the shove is fine, if you have him as a bad player that may call with something like A9/AT or a middle pair Id just give it up and let the SS go out over the next 2 hands

I disagree with all of this, no way should the chip leader fold ak here in a month of sundays, you are setting light to at least $10 doing this against even tight ranges. A10,55  is about borderline calls given we can assume that the bottom of Mariners range is around a5o.

I typed that in work and didnt think about the stack sizes properly.  If Mariner had him covered (say for example they switched stacks) then he should fold AK as Mariner could eliminate him on the bubble when another player would be committed all in on the next hand.  As he is CL and he will still cover the 2 other stacks if he loses then calling with AK isnt bad here but I could still find a fold against Mariners stack mainly because of the shorty all in next hand.  Its not too hard for the Cl here to lose to Mariner and double him, the double the shorty and he's not in good shape at all.

The main aim in these should be to cash, you're playing for top 3.  Once you break the bubble then you can think about going for the win.

I learned how to play these watching the videos on cardrunners and they talk about the importance of pushing aggressively when you have chips to accumulate blinds and they stress avoiding calling off large portions of your stack unless you really have to.  They also say that when your shoving you're hoping the guy you're shoving into understands proper push/fold strategy and bubble play and can fold an ace high, if you dont think they do then you have to be careful with what you shove.  If you feel that this guy is a loose cannon Id walk him, if you rated him or if he seemed somewhat reasonable Id shove on him.

[Longy]

The BB should be folding AK here, if you have him as a good player the shove is fine, if you have him as a bad player that may call with something like A9/AT or a middle pair Id just give it up and let the SS go out over the next 2 hands

I disagree with all of this, no way should the chip leader fold ak here in a month of sundays, you are setting light to at least $10 doing this against even tight ranges. A10,55  is about borderline calls given we can assume that the bottom of Mariners range is around a5o.

I typed that in work and didnt think about the stack sizes properly.  If Mariner had him covered (say for example they switched stacks) then he should fold AK as Mariner could eliminate him on the bubble when another player would be committed all in on the next hand.  As he is CL and he will still cover the 2 other stacks if he loses then calling with AK isnt bad here but I could still find a fold against Mariners stack mainly because of the shorty all in next hand.  Its not too hard for the Cl here to lose to Mariner and double him, the double the shorty and he's not in good shape at all.

The main aim in these should be to cash, you're playing for top 3.  Once you break the bubble then you can think about going for the win.

I learned how to play these watching the videos on cardrunners and they talk about the importance of pushing aggressively when you have chips to accumulate blinds and they stress avoiding calling off large portions of your stack unless you really have to.  They also say that when your shoving you're hoping the guy you're shoving into understands proper push/fold strategy and bubble play and can fold an ace high, if you dont think they do then you have to be careful with what you shove.  If you feel that this guy is a loose cannon Id walk him, if you rated him or if he seemed somewhat reasonable Id shove on him.

Ok yes if we changed the stacks around calling with ak is probably a biggish mistake, even if mariners is pushing 100% which he definitley should be.  Range for calling here is something like qq+.

As for cardrunners stuff im sure whoever is doing the sng vids on there knows what they are doing, but poker isn't about sweeping generalisations and while what they say is true most of the time they are saying it because that is what ICM has taught them.

Learning ICM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watching Cardrunners vids (though im sure they are quite good).

[AgentChip109]

i had a situation on the bubble last night, and was wondering whether this is a bad push?? as soon as i did it i thought i could have made a mistake

Full Tilt Poker Game #4903480573: $22 + $2 Sit & Go (Turbo) (37228629), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:40:54 ET - 2008/01/18
Seat 2: linehaul222 (8,105)
Seat 4: Edgy811 (1,695)
Seat 5: rockinonyas (1,250)
Seat 8: daluno (2,450)
daluno posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Edgy811 [ ]
linehaul222 calls 240
Edgy811 raises to 1,695, and is all in

is this a bad push considering we are on the bubble and the massive chip leader has limped?

[Longy]

Looks alright to me, unless this is something really out of line for utg to do given reads. For example if someone who I thought was "good" did this I would fold as it is bound to be aa/kk. Against random i shove.

[temp0r]

i had a situation on the bubble last night, and was wondering whether this is a bad push?? as soon as i did it i thought i could have made a mistake

Full Tilt Poker Game #4903480573: $22 + $2 Sit & Go (Turbo) (37228629), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:40:54 ET - 2008/01/18
Seat 2: linehaul222 (8,105)
Seat 4: Edgy811 (1,695)
Seat 5: rockinonyas (1,250)
Seat 8: daluno (2,450)
daluno posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Edgy811 [ ]
linehaul222 calls 240
Edgy811 raises to 1,695, and is all in

is this a bad push considering we are on the bubble and the massive chip leader has limped?

couldn't be more standard...

[gatso]

I'm shoving AJ all day long here

[AgentChip109]

cool, he folded anyway so didnt really matter. just wanted to ask really

[TheChipPrince]

Its fine, I dont find the logic in a big chip leader limping with a monster here, as its unlikely 1 of you 3 will shove without a decent hand, all he has to do is raise and you 3 will run a mile...

[Longy]

Its fine, I dont find the logic in a big chip leader limping with a monster here, as its unlikely 1 of you 3 will shove without a decent hand, all he has to do is raise and you 3 will run a mile...

I will be honest i virtually never do it, but i think theoretically its fine with aa especially if your unknown to your opponents. This hand being a perfect example no way should agentchip call a shove from you with aj here which is what you want, but he will shove aj correctly if you limp.

Of course im shoving virtually any two blind here and therefore me suddenly limping a hand looks really super weird.

[UpTheMariners]

another similar situation here earlier today, although i do think i should of pushed here now...

FullTiltPoker Game #4953651252: $110 + $9 Sit & Go (Turbo) (37602128), Table 1 - 200/400 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:05:18 ET - 2008/01/22
Seat 3: Pipcelot (4,583)
Seat 5: alstbr (405)
Seat 6: UpTheMariners (1,190)
Seat 7: solohomer (7,322)
solohomer posts the small blind of 200
Pipcelot posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UpTheMariners [   ]
alstbr folds
UpTheMariners has 15 seconds left to act
UpTheMariners folds
solohomer raises to 7,322, and is all in
Pipcelot folds
Uncalled bet of 6,922 returned to solohomer
solohomer mucks
solohomer wins the pot (800)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 800 | Rake 0
Seat 3: Pipcelot (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: alstbr didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: UpTheMariners (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: solohomer (small blind) collected (800), mucked

[Boba Fett]

another similar situation here earlier today, although i do think i should of pushed here now...

FullTiltPoker Game #4953651252: $110 + $9 Sit & Go (Turbo) (37602128), Table 1 - 200/400 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:05:18 ET - 2008/01/22
Seat 3: Pipcelot (4,583)
Seat 5: alstbr (405)
Seat 6: UpTheMariners (1,190)
Seat 7: solohomer (7,322)
solohomer posts the small blind of 200
Pipcelot posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UpTheMariners [   ]
alstbr folds
UpTheMariners has 15 seconds left to act
UpTheMariners folds
solohomer raises to 7,322, and is all in
Pipcelot folds
Uncalled bet of 6,922 returned to solohomer
solohomer mucks
solohomer wins the pot (800)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 800 | Rake 0
Seat 3: Pipcelot (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: alstbr didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: UpTheMariners (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: solohomer (small blind) collected (800), mucked

You're just hoping that alstbr doesnt get a walk or double up next hand and itll be fine.  Although in some cases solohomer doesnt shove if you shove, he could just be taking advantage of the 2 short stacks to steal the blinds from the 2nd place stack.

[Longy]

another similar situation here earlier today, although i do think i should of pushed here now...

FullTiltPoker Game #4953651252: $110 + $9 Sit & Go (Turbo) (37602128), Table 1 - 200/400 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:05:18 ET - 2008/01/22
Seat 3: Pipcelot (4,583)
Seat 5: alstbr (405)
Seat 6: UpTheMariners (1,190)
Seat 7: solohomer (7,322)
solohomer posts the small blind of 200
Pipcelot posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UpTheMariners [   ]
alstbr folds
UpTheMariners has 15 seconds left to act
UpTheMariners folds
solohomer raises to 7,322, and is all in
Pipcelot folds
Uncalled bet of 6,922 returned to solohomer
solohomer mucks
solohomer wins the pot (800)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 800 | Rake 0
Seat 3: Pipcelot (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: alstbr didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: UpTheMariners (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: solohomer (small blind) collected (800), mucked

Hmmm looks very close, depends on how much bb looks you up. Im be tempted to dump it cos im a nit, from my ICM calcs it looks like it make very little difference in equity either way.

[UpTheMariners]

both sb and bb are loose players which is always a problem!