The power of suggestion..

[Pyso]

Is this a loose call?

Situation

Live Cash Game.  £0.50/£1 blinds, 9 seater

I have been playing for about 4 hours. I have taken a big hit about an hour before, running a set of nines into a set of Jacks.

It's late and I have just considered leaving (I am about £15 down for the session). I am feeling scratchy and hungry.

I am UTG+1 and get dealt K,J suited (spades). I have about £85.

It has been a fairly passive table pre-flop, most pots being contested by at least three players on the flop. So, given the table dynamics and the fact that I haven't played a hand for a while, I limp in.

A couple more callers and then the button raises to £6. He has been raising with abandon for the last ten minutes but not having to show. He is massively up for the session and has on occasion shown the goods but I just know that he has bluffed at at least two pots, using his stack well.

It's folded to me, and I elect to call and see a flop, not unreasonable I feel, given my opponent's recent history and the fact that he is on the button, widening his range somewhat.

The flop is 10, 9, J (no spades), giving me top pair and a good kicker. The pot is just under £20.

I fire out a bet of £15, reasonably confident I am ahead. He instantly picks up a load of chips and slings them in without even counting them. It's a £75 re-raise and I will be all-in if I call.

I take a long time to study him. He seems comfortable enough. He is hovering his cards over the line whilst looking me in the eye and not seeming too perturbed by me making him wait.

I ask him if he can beat a pair of Jacks and he doesn't reply. I announce that I am undecided and might as well flip a coin. Another player gets a coin out and flips it for me, hinting that he is fed up waiting, but that won't be rushing me thank you.

I decide that he is at it. I make this decision when after another reasonable pause he says he might have 7,8, never mind be able to beat Jacks. An overbet is also swaying my decision here, although I am aware that better players can use the overbet as a sophisticated "I must be bluffing" move when actually they do have it.

I call and he turns over Q,Q.

I have outs - a Queen for a straight, another Jack for trips, and a King for top pair (a total of 9) but I miss.

I go home rueing how I allowed myself to call despite all his body language saying he was strong.

I give him credit for making the suggestion that he could have 7,8 with him knowing that I could see him raising with that on the button given his recent aggression; and if he did have 7,8 he would want a call, so with suggesting he wants a call he must NOT want one...

So basically, did I talk myself into knots here and would anyone else have passed? I also feel another factor here is that lately I have been making some very good calls, picking off bluffs. This was one hero call too many and I think my recent success at it was over-influencing my thought process in this instance.

Or is the clue in my early statement that I was thinking of going home because I was tired and hungry and a down for the session?

Your thoughts please folks

Pyso

[Longy]

Its a pass against most villains the only hand we are good against here is qj most of the time. Alot of hands that have you beat are going to make a big bet on this flop as it is so coordinated.

You are getting close to 2 to1 but you could be drawing very thin against the majority of his range.

To be pedantic you are only drawing to 4 outs here as well. 2 jacks and the 2 remaining queens( he has qq). The king makes his straight.

Oh yeah fold preflop but meh i do stuff like this in live cash, cos (a) just everyone in live cash is pretty bad compared to online and (b) The boredom factor of folding gets to me.

[AlexMartin]

How much did he raise pre? Also i love these hands as much of you but oop they bleed chips too easily. Generally its a fold unless you are at least 150BB deep, bottom line ur getting poor implied and ur oop with a marginal hand against a confident player, fold.
As played i prefer c/c or c/r flop opposed to leading in this spot. As played this is a fold. Ur beating AQ and thats it.

[Pyso]

Thanks Longy and Alex,

Good replies both.

A fair point about the King not being an out (!). We tend to award ourselves phantom outs in order to justify a loose call!!!

I knew I'd butchered the hand but needed a second perspective on it. I don't mind my pre-flop call, but I don't like me missing Longy's point that the villain wouldn't be betting into that board unless he had very strong hand. I will be looking a little harder next time, not just at him but at what the bet means in context with the board - I mean I normally do that anyway, but this proves you can't afford to miss much in this game...

I didn't have to bet into him either, even if I did hit the flop. I know you're SUPPOSED to bet (as some wise sage once said allegedly) but on reflection a check here does give me some options.

Also, Alex, I like your point that I am not deep enough to take him on o.o.p with a marginal hand. Earlier in the session it would have been a clear fold (as I had done many times in a similar situation), but it proves you can be at the table too long, that's for sure.

[jakally]

I didn't have to bet into him either, even if I did hit the flop. I know you're SUPPOSED to bet (as some wise sage once said allegedly) but on reflection a check here does give me some options.

I don't think the bet is a mistake. You showed him, you hit the flop - and he then told you that he had as well.

A check may work, but what are you going to do if (when) he bets?
Fold? Not with TPGK to a CB.
Call? Ok, but you are playing a pot of increasing size on a dangerous board OOP.
Raise? You are then pretty much pot committed and only have 1 pair.

The problem with check calling is that you are no wiser to the strength of his hand.
Whereas with a bet, you are putting him to a decision, and therefore encouraging him to reveal the strength of his hand.

[Pyso]

Fair point jakally, this is why I bet - to find out where I was.

I think the hardest thing is poker is responding correctly to a re-raise.

Or is it just me?!

[jakally]

Fair point jakally, this is why I bet - to find out where I was.

I think the hardest thing is poker is responding correctly to a re-raise.

Or is it just me?!

I kinda use the theory, 'If in doubt bet (or raise)' mainly for the reason you state above - you asking the other person to respond / make a decision, and giving them the opportunity to make a mistake.

[LuckyLloyd]

You really need to openfold your hand preflop at a full table. Then definitely fold to the raise to 6 because you are oop against an aggressive villian with King high / no draw on most flops.

[Grier78]

It's late and I have just considered leaving (I am about £15 down for the session). I am feeling scratchy and hungry.

Fold and leave the table because you are more concerned about trying to take down a big pot to finish up on the session than playing the individual hand correctly.
When you feel like stopping then stop as soon as possible and resist the just a couple more hands temptation IMHO.

[Pyso]

Thanks Grier,

I couldn't agree more. The real issue with this hand was that I knew what I should be doing but didn't do it because of my mental state.

Poker is a lot about discipline and if it wanes for one second, you can lose the lot...