Help Lord Wernick.............

[ACE2M]

I generally believe Loyd is correct IF Micky had done the right thing and raised more pre-flop. what was he doing raising it to 700? That 's a silly bet and it doesn't make any sense..noone will fold for that and you'll more than likely be out of position for the rest of the hand..and with a hand like A9 you'll definetly more than likely be behind.

That would of course have lead to all the chips going in because he would have had odds to call after he C-bets the flop.


As played I fold here faster than a folding thing from folding town. Only your flush is ever going to be live. You only invested 2k out of your stack here..swallow your pride and kick yourself for making a silly play pre-flop but a very easy fold.

we don't know enough, 700 might have been getting the job done for the rest of the time, the BB might be tight and straight forward. once he's played it that way he can fold easily when the action gets lively, he's behind, he knows he's behind and he gets the chips in.

[kinboshi]

once there has been a re-re-raise can't he pass? he must be losing and drawing to nine clubs only

Pass and have 13k left?

I was watching a cardrunners video the other day and the player passed a similar spot as he said he had no fold equity.

I'd much rather be pushing here than calling, so I'd fold.  But I'm a nit.

As to the pre-flop bet.  Would a bet of 900 or 800 made any difference rather than his bet of 700?  Just interested to know the reasoning here.

[TheChipPrince]

As to the pre-flop bet.  Would a bet of 900 or 800 made any difference rather than his bet of 700?  Just interested to know the reasoning here.

2's still call, maybe Barney will fold... Borderline decision, I wouldnt blame anyone for pushing or folding...

[jonah]

Have to agree with boldie, even though he's a legend, A9 in ep is an instant fold for me.  Once its played out however its tough to get away from although its obvious 2pair or a set is out there so if the board pairs nut flush no good anyway.

[TightEnd]

from Barny on the update thread

"Is case anyone is pondering Micky's story I'll tell it as it was, so it makes sense:

I was on the bb with 13k, (blinds 150/300)  Mickey has min raised to 700 and one or two have called before me. I call the extra 400 with    .

On a flop of    I check, mickey bets 1,200  matey bets 4,200 and I pick up up my 1k chips and make it 11k to go.

Now Mickey shoves for 17k and Matey calls 11k all in. I call my last 2k for a  4k side pot with Micky.

To me, every play by all three of us was a no-brainer. I just wish Micky had made a bigger raise pre-flop!"

[action man]

from Barny on the update thread

"Is case anyone is pondering Micky's story I'll tell it as it was, so it makes sense:

I was on the bb with 13k, (blinds 150/300)  Mickey has min raised to 700 and one or two have called before me. I call the extra 400 with    .

On a flop of    I check, mickey bets 1,200  matey bets 4,200 and I pick up up my 1k chips and make it 11k to go.

Now Mickey shoves for 17k and Matey calls 11k all in. I call my last 2k for a  4k side pot with Micky.

To me, every play by all three of us was a no-brainer. I just wish Micky had made a bigger raise pre-flop!"

this makes micky's decison an insta fold for me, he is just gambling on hitting the flush with only 1900 from his 19k stack invested. To quote the man himself "better spot"

[MANTIS01]

I don't mind the pre-flop raise.

Personally I always triple the bet when opening and rarely deviate from that....but making it smaller is ok.

Lloyd says....

- What his preflop raise size would be with AKo or better // JJ or better?

Boldie says....

That 's a silly bet and it doesn't make any sense..noone will fold for that

I think those two statements actually go together rather well. Mickey is making his bet a desirable one to call and his oppos will wonder why. Why doesn't Mickey want us to fold? His hand already looks much stronger than it is and a skilled post flop player is going to exploit that later in the hand. More often than not he is going to be able to take this pot against 9-3 & 2-2 or similar post-flop. I Don't think people should be looking too closely at the hand strength e.g. A-9 from EP...but rather the situation strength e.g. 700 from EP. So he's raising to PLAY a pot, not necessarily win one pre-flop, and he can do that now with the psychological advantage.

Post-flop I think his c-bet is a fantastically consistent one. It's smallish and begging for action...just like his pre-flop one was. He could be doing this with    and it would look for all the world like he has A-A....and 9-3 & 2-2 just quietly go away. The problem is everyone hits and things get messy as a result. What would you do with A-A now?

The advantage of keeping things small ball is that you DON'T pot-commit yourself....and there is little point in giving yourself an escape hatch if you never use it. So all-in is going to be a pure luck-based gamble. Take it on? Depends on tournament position...maybe...probably...ALL-IN!! Shit I didn't have to do that.

[action man]

so you fold for 17k more once the 4bet postflop from barney comes?

[LuckyLloyd]

from Barny on the update thread

"To me, every play by all three of us was a no-brainer. I just wish Micky had made a bigger raise pre-flop!"

lol donkaments. But yeah, I think that with the shallow stacks involved - it's a cooler.

[action man]

19k @ 150/300 aint exactly shallow. I think mickey made the stack sizes smaller in his chat with snoops because he knew he had made a mistake, and tried to make it look a fine play.

[boldie]

from Barny on the update thread

"To me, every play by all three of us was a no-brainer. I just wish Micky had made a bigger raise pre-flop!"

lol donkaments. But yeah, I think that with the shallow stacks involved - it's a cooler.

60 Bb's mate...plenty deep for me to fold with this action.

[MANTIS01]

The real problem with this hand is the flop. Because it looks heaven-sent. You set out to represent a strong hand and you are surprised to actually flop one. And even though the action tells you you're toast you're already in love with it. It's like those adverts on the TV for "girls in your area" licking their mobile phones just waiting to flirt with you. The reality is probably a fat moose waiting to take your money. Just like this board.

[bobby1]

On reading the hand thru last night I couldn't put Barney on 2 pair on that board given him calling a raise three handed but as he has been kind enough to post that there were in fact others in the pot it does make sense/more probable now. I cant see either of them having an over pair, they would re raise pre flop to find out how strong the opening raise was.


Originally I had to have Barney on at least a set here given I couldn't put him on 2 pair. Or.... would he re raise with a non nut club draw tho or maybe 4 5 clubs?

Either way, the info you now have is you are deffo behind,TPTK cannot be winning very often here given the action, the odds might give you a call to hit the flush but should Barney or the other guy have a two club hand you are maybe drawing light and already behind, I think I would pass. and take my still decent stack on to the next hand..

Is anyone passing bottom set last to act here by the way after the action has gone, bet , raise, re raise, re re raise?


All in all its a bloody intriguing hand of poker.

[boldie]

On reading the hand thru last night I couldn't put Barney on 2 pair on that board given him calling a raise three handed but as he has been kind enough to post that there were in fact others in the pot it does make sense/more probable now. I cant see either of them having an over pair, they would re raise pre flop to find out how strong the opening raise was.


Originally I had to have Barney on at least a set here given I couldn't put him on 2 pair. Or.... would he re raise with a non nut club draw tho or maybe 4 5 clubs?

Either way, the info you now have is you are deffo behind,TPTK cannot be winning very often here given the action, the odds might give you a call to hit the flush but should Barney or the other guy have a two club hand you are maybe drawing light and already behind, I think I would pass. and take my still decent stack on to the next hand..

Is anyone passing bottom set last to act here by the way after the action has gone, bet , raise, re raise, re re raise?


All in all its a bloody intriguing hand of poker.

I never pass bottom set here..ever..well maybe if someone turns over top or middle set..but even then it's a toughy

[bobby1]

On reading the hand thru last night I couldn't put Barney on 2 pair on that board given him calling a raise three handed but as he has been kind enough to post that there were in fact others in the pot it does make sense/more probable now. I cant see either of them having an over pair, they would re raise pre flop to find out how strong the opening raise was.


Originally I had to have Barney on at least a set here given I couldn't put him on 2 pair. Or.... would he re raise with a non nut club draw tho or maybe 4 5 clubs?

Either way, the info you now have is you are deffo behind,TPTK cannot be winning very often here given the action, the odds might give you a call to hit the flush but should Barney or the other guy have a two club hand you are maybe drawing light and already behind, I think I would pass. and take my still decent stack on to the next hand..

Is anyone passing bottom set last to act here by the way after the action has gone, bet , raise, re raise, re re raise?


All in all its a bloody intriguing hand of poker.

I never pass bottom set here..ever..well maybe if someone turns over top or middle set..but even then it's a toughy

Given that we were told that the guy had 10k I agree but Action Man and Barney have mentioned that the guys were a bit deeper than that.