Raking uncalled bets!!

[PaulSykes]

Venues will keep doing this un-challenged.

imho you made the right move by giving you opinion, wheather its deemed right or wrong by the casino.

Be interesting to see the outcome 

[PocketLady]

Imagine the scene, first time I get up from behind the screen and decide to try bricks and mortar, i pootle off to the local casino, pay my way into a comp and I'm greeted by two of the most friendly and accommodating guys you could possibly meet. They asked me if this was my first time in a live game and offered me a run through of the rules and procedures of a live game, i couldn't have asked for a better and more approachable entry into what is quite an intimidating environment. As the night drew on, a cash game was started, great another window into this world of live poker! at some point, however, the atmosphere changed. Something of a debate had started over the rake... Now I'm not sure, but not since i was eight years old have i truly thought that throwing a tantrum was the way to behave, harassing someone who is clearly not a baby eater, and who has obviously taken the point being made on board, (but was not in a position to do some thing about it there and then), sulking , and then finally walking out in a huff that only a pop diva would have been proud of. Now obviously i don't know if this is the usual way poker players communicate with those who are trying to provide an honest and enjoyable environment for them to play in, but hey, i don't think i was the only one who was thinking, "Grow up, why don't you, you've had your say now play the game".

 

I have to say I am EXTREMELY offended by this post.  From someone who's first visit it was to this casino you have no idea about the relationship I have with this casino.  As you have stated it was your first visit to a brick and mortar casino so you maybe don't full undertsand how rake usually works in live games.  What this casino had done (and I think unintenionally as the cash games are very new) was something that would 100% completely kill the game.  It was "unintentional" daylight robbery.  As someone who plays poker for a living, I would be skint by the end of the year if every casino I played in had this rake.  I first tried to explain to the supervisor WHY it was a bad idea to rake uncalled bets, using a similar explanation as I did in the original post in this thread.  That was met by a response indicating that it was out of his hands.  I did not behave like a diva, nor did I storm out in a huff.  I carried on playing in the game until I lost my money, walked out of the cardroom to bring this matter to the attention of someone more superior because I DID understand that it was out of the supervisors hands, as it always is in this casino.  I stated that I couldn't carry on playing in these games until something had changed, because it is my living.  I did not once raise my voice to anyone, nor did I sulk.  If you are referring to me sitting around in the card room not doing anything this was because I wasn't ready to go home even though I had finished playing.  I was chatting to my friends.  If you have bothered to read any of my posts in this thread, I deliberately HAVE NOT stated which casino it is, because I love that casino in general.  You are right, it is the friendliest casino I have ever visited.  I am a regular there and am very familiar and dare I say friends with many of the staff and other players.

"Grow up, why don't you, you've had your say now play the game".

Because I cannot play the game.  No one can beat the rake.  I'm sure you have a job in the real world, well this is my job and I have a right to speak up and protect myself and the other players.  For what it's worth, I have spoken to several of the other players since then, and they all 100% agreed with me on this matter.  Please don't come onto blonde and make such a harsh attacking post as your first on a matter you clearly don't understand fully.  I'm sorry if I have done anything to offend you, but I am just looking out for myself and the other players, a lot of whom are my friends.

For what it's worth, the casino in question have now stopped raking uncalled bets since it was brought to the attention of people who have the power to make changes. 

Oh yes and one more point - Myself and the cardroom manager are well known (and ribbed by the staff and other players) for out heated debates on the subject of poker, and no matter how heated it may seem, we never fall out about anything, and it is all taken as a healthy discussion.

[PaulSykes]

Well put and well said mate.

[PocketLady]

I have a feeling that this might all be a set up anyway.  It has been pointed out to me that how would a new person to the live game know things like "somone...who has obviously taken the point being made on board, (but was not in a position to do some thing about it there and then)"

[EvilPie]

I have a feeling that this might all be a set up anyway.  It has been pointed out to me that how would a new person to the live game know things like "somone...who has obviously taken the point being made on board, (but was not in a position to do some thing about it there and then)"

My money's on your friend the cardroom manager 

[ericstoner]

I do not understand how as a player who attempts to make a living from poker you would entertain playing at a venue Ware there is a rake from each pot, rather than an hourly table charge,as is the case of all GC regulated casinos.
Is it because the venue is local and your incidental charges are minimal so outweighing the costs of attending a casino with hourly charges,or do you have a great feel on the other players,giving you a greater+EV.
Rake per pot is a virus that's creeping into UK poker, and through the constant bleeding of money from the table,and hence poker community,means it becomes impossible for you to sustain a living over the long term,as eventually 'new blood'will dry up.beaten out of the game by the per pot rake.
I noted this problem years ago when i played in Amsterdam Whar I was perplexed by the 6 gilders per pot rake,whare if the table stayed unbroken for a few hours, the costs are crippling.
A better example is the Star city casino in Sydney that Pab refereed to in his post. Here the $200 sit own gets raked at $8 per pot(most pots hit the max, due to the crazy playing style) plus a $1 per Han per player charge.
I won't explain the maths, but just to say that if a 10 man table sit down together for 4 hrs without bringing new money in, and starting with $200 each, and no new players coming or going,the house takes all the money on the table.
A quick explanation can be given, but you can work it out for yourself.
So as Flushey says, never play in anywhere except a venue that hourly charges.
Rake per pot is a cancer, that will, if it is allowed to get out of hand, or if more unregulated venues are allowed to flourish  will kill live poker.
live poker cannot bear this bleeding out of money from the playing community.
Vote with your feet.

[boldie]

I do not understand how as a player who attempts to make a living from poker you would entertain playing at a venue Ware there is a rake from each pot, rather than an hourly table charge,as is the case of all GC regulated casinos.
Is it because the venue is local and your incidental charges are minimal so outweighing the costs of attending a casino with hourly charges,or do you have a great feel on the other players,giving you a greater+EV.
Rake per pot is a virus that's creeping into UK poker, and through the constant bleeding of money from the table,and hence poker community,means it becomes impossible for you to sustain a living over the long term,as eventually 'new blood'will dry up.beaten out of the game by the per pot rake.
I noted this problem years ago when i played in Amsterdam Whar I was perplexed by the 6 gilders per pot rake,whare if the table stayed unbroken for a few hours, the costs are crippling.
A better example is the Star city casino in Sydney that Pab refereed to in his post. Here the $200 sit own gets raked at $8 per pot(most pots hit the max, due to the crazy playing style) plus a $1 per Han per player charge.
I won't explain the maths, but just to say that if a 10 man table sit down together for 4 hrs without bringing new money in, and starting with $200 each, and no new players coming or going,the house takes all the money on the table.
A quick explanation can be given, but you can work it out for yourself.
So as Flushey says, never play in anywhere except a venue that hourly charges.
Rake per pot is a cancer, that will, if it is allowed to get out of hand, or if more unregulated venues are allowed to flourish  will kill live poker.
live poker cannot bear this bleeding out of money from the playing community.
Vote with your feet.

excellent post, hourly charges are MUCH preferred.

[kinboshi]

DTD rakes from the pot, and it doesn't appear to be putting people off.  Maybe it is from the higher stakes games, I don't know. 

[RED-DOG]

DTD rakes from the pot, and it doesn't appear to be putting people off.  Maybe it is from the higher stakes games, I don't know. 

With respect Kin, that's not the point. You can't beat the "rake" on roulette, or a one arm bandit, but it doesn't put people off.

[Karabiner]

An hourly charge is also a "rake", this is not as clear cut as saying rake is bad , hourly charge is good.

For players such as Tom and myself the rake at DTD is not a hinderance as opposed to paying say £10 per hour.

[kinboshi]

DTD rakes from the pot, and it doesn't appear to be putting people off.  Maybe it is from the higher stakes games, I don't know. 

With respect Kin, that's not the point. You can't beat the "rake" on roulette, or a one arm bandit, but it doesn't put people off.

With respect, that was exactly the point:

So as Flushey says, never play in anywhere except a venue that hourly charges.
Rake per pot is a cancer, that will, if it is allowed to get out of hand, or if more unregulated venues are allowed to flourish  will kill live poker.
live poker cannot bear this bleeding out of money from the playing community.
Vote with your feet.

[RED-DOG]

An hourly charge is also a "rake", this is not as clear cut as saying rake is bad , hourly charge is good.

For players such as Tom and myself the rake at DTD is not a hinderance as opposed to paying say £10 per hour.

Correct. Obviously what really matters is the size of the rake or the hourly charge.

[boldie]

An hourly charge is also a "rake", this is not as clear cut as saying rake is bad , hourly charge is good.

For players such as Tom and myself the rake at DTD is not a hinderance as opposed to paying say £10 per hour.

Depends on the stake you play your cash game at compared to the hourly charge. The 2-2 Omaha which we played didn't that have a 5% rake with a max of 8£?  (I think, so correct me if I'm wrong on this one) I know I'd rather pay a tenner an hour than the above.

[Karabiner]

An hourly charge is also a "rake", this is not as clear cut as saying rake is bad , hourly charge is good.

For players such as Tom and myself the rake at DTD is not a hinderance as opposed to paying say £10 per hour.

Depends on the stake you play your cash game at compared to the hourly charge. The 2-2 Omaha which we played didn't that have a 5% rake with a max of 8£?  (I think, so correct me if I'm wrong on this one) I know I'd rather pay a tenner an hour than the above.

It depends very much on one's style of play. The more pots one plays then obviously the more rake one pays.

[ericstoner]

Ralph, I understand that entirely,and it's true you Tom and propably myself by virtue of our style of play can ourselves make it pay.(though I will not myself play at a raked table). For the greater poker community Per Pot rake is very bad for the game and as in Boldies example can be excessive,and a real strain on players finances over time.

Kin, due to personal circumstances,I've not had the pleasure of attending DTD, though I'm coming to BB6. and didn't realize they raked per pot.I can only imagine those that pay the rake willingly,accept the cost for the overall expiries they are getting for their money.I must however keep the faith, and unfortunately have to concider my stance on playing cash at DTD, though as I said to Ralph, my style of play may allow attendance,we'll see,depends how strong my resolve!